Jones and overcoming the tall and lanky build?

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by MikeHammer**, Jan 6, 2015.

  1. MikeHammer**

    MikeHammer** Banned Banned

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    If any thing is clear in the history of our sport of MMA it is that typically having a tall and lanky build in a sport that involves grappling is a disadvantage. Guys with a more typical squat powerful build have typically dominated the grappling based arts with only a few guys with a tall and lanky build breaking through.

    Tall and lanky builds typically lend well to striking and distance combat sports like boxing and kick boxing, etc.

    The stats do not lie. If you look at the lists of champs and top 10 guys since the inception of this sport few would be said to have had a tall and lanky build.

    So how do guys like Jones and Anderson break through?

    It is with an increased skill level to over come that type of body style.

    It is only when the rare fighter with that build is able to over come the typical disadvantage of being bullied and out muscled by the guys with the advantage of the lower centre of gravity and more powerful builds, that we see true top level success by a tall and lanky fighter.

    The skill is in knowing how to utilize that length and distance control (a skill that Struve, Grove and Roop, etc do not have), the skill is in knowing how to utilize the leverage you can exert to offset the power advantage your opponent has. And these are skills you must have in abundance when fighting a world class grappler who has trained to force you to fight where he wants the fight.

    Jones demonstrating this ability is arguably showing to date the highest skill level we have seen in a MMA fighter. I think it hard to argue that we have seen anyone show the immense skill to utilize their build so effectively. And I say this as someone who so wanted to see Cormier dominate him and someone who could not stand his post fight interviews and views JOnes as the Ronda Rousey of the mens division. Bitchy, angry and forever holding grudges.

    I may greatly dislike the man, but the fighter's skills cannot be denied. He is the next level fighter this sport has needed and if only he had a more likeable personality I do believe he could be the Mayweather of this sport due to the art in his performances.
     
  2. Doodles

    Doodles Brown Belt

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    You're talking perfect sense.
     
  3. Senzo Tanaka

    Senzo Tanaka Silver Belt

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    Because this is MMA and not straight grappling. In grappling, it's important to take and hold guys down so it's usually going to be the powerful and squat guys who are gong to be the best for that.

    Jones has the perfect build for MMA and his wrestling base allows him to stay on his feet.

    I don't consider Anderson on the same level. Most of us knew for many years the way to beat Anderson was to wrestle him and Sonnen and Weidman showed you could beat him that way.

    Jones literally has no blue print. The only thing that seems to help is to be the same size and have the same reach as he does. You're going to have to match what he has and it's still going to be a tough fight.
     
  4. Andre Xiong

    Andre Xiong Silver Belt Professional Fighter

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    Chael is winless against Anderson Silva with 2 stoppage losses; Weidman (T)KO Anderson Silva twice on the feet.
     
  5. MikeHammer**

    MikeHammer** Banned Banned

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    In MMA the template for decades for grappling based fighters to beat tall and lanky fighters was just that. Take them down, control them, out muscle them, and beat them up.

    I am not sure that we can say yet that Jones has the perfect build for MMA unless we see others with that build able to utilize it as effectively. Jones might just end up being a rare freak with that body style able to do something with it that few else with that build will be able to repeat due to it perhaps requiring such a higher level of skill to be effective with that body style.

    And yes, the blue print to beat Jones, so far seems to be to be able to block his td's and then have good enough striking to beat him on the feet. I am thinking someone in the Prime Crocop mold with even better tdd would give Jones big issues just as Gus did when Jones struggled to take him down and was then forced almost solely into a more one dimensional striking fight.
     
  6. RepairManManMan

    RepairManManMan Banned Banned

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    Jones' build is only great because it is coincided by his skill level. The gameplan to defeat a fighter with a smaller center of gravity, and a smaller fighter altogether, has been written in the books YEARS ago. So it is nothing new.

    But why do they break through? In my opinion: better cardio.


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    There has never been a greater fighter than Jon Jones
     
  7. Bull Terrier

    Bull Terrier Brown Belt

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    Jones' awesome skill along with his physical gifts (and awareness of how to use them) makes him incredibly hard to beat at this point.

    I actually think Gus has a good chance in a rematch, but that's it at LHW.
     
  8. Doodles

    Doodles Brown Belt

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    Cormier was doing well for the first half of the fight. Some argue he was winning.
    Cormier is one of the shortest guys Bones has faced yet gave him the most trouble along with Gus.
     
  9. Cid

    Cid Silver Belt

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    Silva and Jones are both brutal even when they're fighting on the inside as well though and both will often fight there...

    I don't think the body type is a disadvantage if you have the athleticism and strength to back it up. I think MMA destroys a lot of the physical appearance stereotypes that we have. Jones and Silva do to lanky guys not being strong what Fedor and Cain have done to huge muscles making you the best HW on the planet.
     
  10. yookfarb

    yookfarb Red Belt

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    Your reach is maximized when your fist is parallel with the ground. It would only seem natrual that short guys like Cormier and Rashad would be able to have more success than someone like Shogun or Glover.
     
  11. MikeHammer**

    MikeHammer** Banned Banned

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    that does not really counter the point though.

    Chael showed the typical weakness a tall, lanky fighter faces when fighting an elite wrestler/grappler. Anderson could not stop Chael from taking him down and putting him on his back. Thankfully for Anderson, Chaels finishing game from that position is almost nil and his ability to be finished from that position is about as low as a supposed elite fighter at the top of a division has been since Frank Trigg.

    Weidman is a special beast. He proved he could put Anderson on his back and deliver real serious damage with a few blows (where Chael landed hundreds and did almost nothing) and that entirely changed the complexion of the fights for Anderson in how he could and could not deal with Weidman. It was Weidman's early success in fight 1 in putting Anderson on his back that set the stage for his wins.

    Not that we want to hijack this topic.
     
  12. Le0n

    Le0n Yellow Belt

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    Yeah, where am I? I thought I was on Sherdog.
     
  13. Factory

    Factory Black Belt

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    Is Jones even that lanky? I see that he has only skinny legs, but his upper body is monstrous (very large frame). He has a weird build, which is perfect for mma imo. His height is fine. 6
     
  14. tbulls123

    tbulls123 Green Belt

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    He is the perfect MMA creation, but he does have some things he needs to improve on still. I think he will become better the more he fights. He is unique and also is very unpredictable which is what I think comes across most fighters mind. They don't know what to expect from him. But to beat him, a LHW has to have the same conditioning as he does, outbox him, defend the take downs, and win the clinch exchanges. Cormier did just that with the clinch in the middle of the ring but when he was at the fence, that was when Jones is at his clinch game. What I want to see is a LHW who knows how to use their leg kicks against him. I think jones has strong leg kicks but he hardly get kick back. I think once someone can start kicking him in the legs, it may be his weakness. But for now, he is a freak of nature and no one will come close to his level except for maybe Gus if he passes the test against Rumble.
     
  15. MikeHammer**

    MikeHammer** Banned Banned

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