1. The official Sherdog Store is back! Check it out! » Discuss it here! »

Jon Lost Under the Unified Rules. But the Fight was in Texas.

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by Arrrrgh, Feb 9, 2020.

  1. Arrrrgh Black Belt

    Joined:
    May 13, 2014
    Messages:
    6,472
    Likes Received:
    1,455
    Unified rules:
    Effective Striking/Grappling shall be considered the first priority of round assessments. Effective Aggressiveness is a „Plan B‟ and should not be considered unless the judge does not see ANY advantage in the Effective Striking/Grappling realm. Cage/Ring Control („Plan C‟) should only be needed when ALL other criteria are 100% even for both competitors. This will be an extremely rare occurrence.


    Those aren't my words. They are direct from the unified rules. Source:
    http://www.abcboxing.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/2017-Official-MMA-Judging-Criteria.pdf
    Second paragraph of the document.
    https://www.dca.ca.gov/csac/forms_pubs/publications/unified_rules_2017.pdf
    Top of page 2.


    Texas Scoring Criteria (old criteria):
    (d) Scoring Techniques.

    (1) Using the 10-Point Must Scoring System, judges are required to determine a winner of a contest that ends after the scheduled number of rounds have been completed. Ten points must be awarded to the winner of each round and 9 points or less must be awarded to the loser, except for a rare even round, which is scored a 10-10.

    (2) Judges must evaluate mixed martial arts techniques, such as effective striking, effective grappling, fighting area control, and effective aggressiveness/defense.


    https://www.tdlr.texas.gov/sports/sportsrules.htm#61111


    So Jon won that fight because there is not a clear criteria in Texas saying which is more important, moving forward or strikes. Everywhere else strikes are more important.
     
  2. Myrddin Wild Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2016
    Messages:
    25,385
    Likes Received:
    13,174
    Location:
    The Legion of Groove ~~~~~Lounge~~~~~
    Well said TS.

    This thread should be bumped to the top of Sherdog regularly untill people start understanding that Texas counts "fighting area control" right next to "effective striking & grappling."

    I still need to re-watch it as I'm curious to see if Reyes would've won under the new roolz imo... but I think it becomes much clearer knowing the Texas roolz.

    Another fun thought is whether or not Jones was being strategic and personally picked Texas to fight in because he recognized Reyes was going to be skating side to side next to the octogon the whole time.

    <TheWire1>
     
  3. KeepItRealist Gold Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2014
    Messages:
    16,028
    Likes Received:
    0
    Whatever rules were in effect, two of those judges giving Jones the 2nd round is absurd.
     
  4. BigGucci Green Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2013
    Messages:
    1,150
    Likes Received:
    797
    Dom Reyes won clearly under ANY subset of rules.
     
  5. Willy Knuckles Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2019
    Messages:
    5,813
    Likes Received:
    4,511
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Sherdog PBP gave jon that round too. All three of the people scoring the fight on sherdog PBP gave that round to Jones. Absurd though lol
     
  6. KeepItRealist Gold Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2014
    Messages:
    16,028
    Likes Received:
    0
    Which is why I don't pay attention to their scoring.
     
  7. Justinboxing Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2020
    Messages:
    85
    Likes Received:
    0
    Jones lost the fight in Texas.
     
  8. KootenayKid Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2015
    Messages:
    4,180
    Likes Received:
    637
    Location:
    An Igloo
    Jon landed more effective strikes in 4 and 5 while Dom was slowing down hard. 2 was close, Dom missed a lot of punches. It’s a close fight under either criteria and not a robbery either way.
     
  9. Willy Knuckles Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2019
    Messages:
    5,813
    Likes Received:
    4,511
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Their scoring is usually spot on. You sound like you only pay attention to scoring that agrees with you
     
  10. KeepItRealist Gold Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2014
    Messages:
    16,028
    Likes Received:
    0
    Actually, Sherdog's judges tend to strongly favor the champion and the more popular fighters from what I've seen. If you are looking to give someone rounds, you will find the excuse to. I believe most media outlets scored it for Reyes? Don't know the count.
     
  11. Willy Knuckles Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2019
    Messages:
    5,813
    Likes Received:
    4,511
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    I'm not even saying it was a clear round for jon, just saying giving him that round isn't "absurd", when multiple people are giving him that round. People giving him that round aren't looking for a random round to give him, that was the closet round (maybe the third), and the judges saw it for jon most likely. Reyes was swinging at a lot of air, idk how people expect that not to impact the scoring
     
  12. Congo66 Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2006
    Messages:
    10,579
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    London
    There's a hell of a lot more of an argument for the 2nd than the 3rd and 2 of them scored the 3rd for Jones too. The only round where all 3 scored it for Reyes was the first.
    If all 3 had gone for Reyes in the 2nd Jones would still have won a split decision as 2 of the 3 judges gave him rounds 3-5.
     
  13. Rvd Slmr Silver Belt Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2010
    Messages:
    14,595
    Likes Received:
    5,133
    Location:
    France
    It's still very surprising that none of the judges saw it for Reyes despite the fact that they all scored the fight differently round by round. I would have been okay with any winner of a UD or SD 48-47, but a UD with a 49-46 for Jones?
     
  14. Nate banged my mom Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2019
    Messages:
    4,572
    Likes Received:
    1,518
  15. Airdack sandbagging white belt bjj classes

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2013
    Messages:
    6,805
    Likes Received:
    757
    Location:
    Sylvan Learning Center
    who cares anymore? Jon's last exciting striker performance was years back against Glover. Jon just goes out there and uses his unnatural frame to throw pot shots, knee kicks, and the rare committed strike. Anytime someone pushes the pace on him he will literally run away to avoid an exchange, hes done it multiple fights now. Then he runs back to the center of the octagon and repeats the same boring shit for 5 rounds.
     
  16. Myrddin Wild Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2016
    Messages:
    25,385
    Likes Received:
    13,174
    Location:
    The Legion of Groove ~~~~~Lounge~~~~~
    Some good fun to be had by hearing ya Boiy Joe Soliz bump in his own wordz to the discussion on twitter.

    "Dominick Reyes advanced for only 9% of the fight."

    When presented with a "significant strike" count... ya Boiy Soliz said:
    "Your stat sheet does not include advancing per round and pressure. Check those out and it will make much more sense."

    "My judging is in perfect accordance with the Texas State athletic commission's guidelines"

    "I have been working for the Texas commission for years I know my job."

    His wordz, not mine.

    [​IMG]

    The link to Texas roolz in the OP backs it up though imo. The only debate is how much a Texas judge should count "advancing & pressure" compared to "effective striking & grappling"
     
  17. KootenayKid Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2015
    Messages:
    4,180
    Likes Received:
    637
    Location:
    An Igloo
    I agree, the scores were very surprising. As I saw it on just a first watch in a loud bar. I gave it 2,4,5 to Jones. But I wasn’t gonna be surprised if they had it 123 for Reyes. One of the judges gave Reyes round 5 I think? I’m really gonna have to rewatch this because even if Reyes got the nod I don’t remember him doing nearly enough to win 5.
     
  18. Mr Fahrenheit Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2018
    Messages:
    4,438
    Likes Received:
    1,972
    Pretty amazing. Still doesn’t mean he definitely won. But the more important takeaway is how insane it is that the trajectory of the sport can change so much based on what state we happen to be in.
     
  19. WarFan90 I'm not a rat, I'm a turtle, a ninja turtle.

    Joined:
    May 27, 2019
    Messages:
    1,548
    Likes Received:
    548
    I wasnt aware Texas had different scoring values, this has me wondering if the ufc purposefully scheduled this fight there, or if knowing this jones camp pushed a ring control heavy game plan knowing the scoring would be done this way. Regardless the biggest fights in the sport should not be decided by state athletic commissions rules on judging. If that is the case, all title fights should be held in the same state, and even further ALL fights should be held in the same state or atleast states that adhere to the same rules for judging. If the ufc took a hard line on this I belive any state hoping to host an event would change their criteria to match. Crazy that this is even an issue at this point. Imagine it when the nfl played a game in England they decided they were going to count touchdowns as 1 point. This is ludicrous.
     
  20. Myrddin Wild Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2016
    Messages:
    25,385
    Likes Received:
    13,174
    Location:
    The Legion of Groove ~~~~~Lounge~~~~~
    Yup, or Jon himself in a very strategic move knowing he would keep Reyes skating the outside called uncle Dana & requested to fight in Texas.

    I completely agree that these different roolz are ridiculous & can be manipulated. They aren't even clearly defined.

    Like how much do we compare "fighting area control" to "effective striking?" There'z no dialog on that. They're just placed next to each other for what could be just as easily interpreted as "equal" factors. Obviously damaging strikes should be considered higher right? Well not according to the black n white of teh Texas roolz

    I just said the same in another thread that the UFC is big enough to tell people that we just won't bring our circus to your state if you don't roll with the new criteria.

    New criteria only put into effect start of 2017 & had to grow a bit. That's only 3 years ago. Maybe they'll all come around.

    Yup, to be fair though, the NFL haz been working out their roolz for like a century longer or so yeah? Based off of Rugby & they slowly adjusted to their own rools. Would be interesting to see how the roolz have developed throughout the yearz for them too. Hell 30 years into their evolution was the start of the 19th century, we're now only 30 years into it in 2020!!
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.