Jon Lost Under the Unified Rules. But the Fight was in Texas.

[Arrrrgh]

Unified rules:
Effective Striking/Grappling shall be considered the first priority of round assessments. Effective Aggressiveness is a „Plan B‟ and should not be considered unless the judge does not see ANY advantage in the Effective Striking/Grappling realm. Cage/Ring Control („Plan C‟) should only be needed when ALL other criteria are 100% even for both competitors. This will be an extremely rare occurrence.


Those aren't my words. They are direct from the unified rules. Source:
http://www.abcboxing.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/2017-Official-MMA-Judging-Criteria.pdf
Second paragraph of the document.
https://www.dca.ca.gov/csac/forms_pubs/publications/unified_rules_2017.pdf
Top of page 2.


Texas Scoring Criteria (old criteria):
(d) Scoring Techniques.

(1) Using the 10-Point Must Scoring System, judges are required to determine a winner of a contest that ends after the scheduled number of rounds have been completed. Ten points must be awarded to the winner of each round and 9 points or less must be awarded to the loser, except for a rare even round, which is scored a 10-10.

(2) Judges must evaluate mixed martial arts techniques, such as effective striking, effective grappling, fighting area control, and effective aggressiveness/defense.

https://www.tdlr.texas.gov/sports/sportsrules.htm#61111


So Jon won that fight because there is not a clear criteria in Texas saying which is more important, moving forward or strikes. Everywhere else strikes are more important.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

Well said TS.

This thread should be bumped to the top of Sherdog regularly untill people start understanding that Texas counts "fighting area control" right next to "effective striking & grappling."

I still need to re-watch it as I'm curious to see if Reyes would've won under the new roolz imo... but I think it becomes much clearer knowing the Texas roolz.

Another fun thought is whether or not Jones was being strategic and personally picked Texas to fight in because he recognized Reyes was going to be skating side to side next to the octogon the whole time.

 

[KeepItRealist]

Whatever rules were in effect, two of those judges giving Jones the 2nd round is absurd.

 

[BigGucci]

Dom Reyes won clearly under ANY subset of rules.

 

[Willy Knuckles]

Whatever rules were in effect, two of those judges giving Jones the 2nd round is absurd.

Sherdog PBP gave jon that round too. All three of the people scoring the fight on sherdog PBP gave that round to Jones. Absurd though lol

 

[KeepItRealist]

Sherdog PBP gave jon that round too. All three of the people scoring the fight on sherdog PBP gave that round to Jones. Absurd though lol

Which is why I don't pay attention to their scoring.

 

[Justinboxing]

Jones lost the fight in Texas.

 

[KootenayKid]

Jon landed more effective strikes in 4 and 5 while Dom was slowing down hard. 2 was close, Dom missed a lot of punches. It’s a close fight under either criteria and not a robbery either way.

 

[Willy Knuckles]

Which is why I don't pay attention to their scoring.

Their scoring is usually spot on. You sound like you only pay attention to scoring that agrees with you

 

[KeepItRealist]

Their scoring is usually spot on. You sound like you only pay attention to scoring that agrees with you

Actually, Sherdog's judges tend to strongly favor the champion and the more popular fighters from what I've seen. If you are looking to give someone rounds, you will find the excuse to. I believe most media outlets scored it for Reyes? Don't know the count.

 

[Willy Knuckles]

Actually, Sherdog's judges tend to strong favor the champion and the more popular fighters from what I've seen. If you are looking to give someone rounds, you will find the excuse to. I believe most media outlets scored it for Reyes? Don't know the count.

I'm not even saying it was a clear round for jon, just saying giving him that round isn't "absurd", when multiple people are giving him that round. People giving him that round aren't looking for a random round to give him, that was the closet round (maybe the third), and the judges saw it for jon most likely. Reyes was swinging at a lot of air, idk how people expect that not to impact the scoring

 

[Congo66]

Whatever rules were in effect, two of those judges giving Jones the 2nd round is absurd.

There's a hell of a lot more of an argument for the 2nd than the 3rd and 2 of them scored the 3rd for Jones too. The only round where all 3 scored it for Reyes was the first.
If all 3 had gone for Reyes in the 2nd Jones would still have won a split decision as 2 of the 3 judges gave him rounds 3-5.

 

[Rvd Slmr]

It’s a close fight under either criteria and not a robbery either way.

It's still very surprising that none of the judges saw it for Reyes despite the fact that they all scored the fight differently round by round. I would have been okay with any winner of a UD or SD 48-47, but a UD with a 49-46 for Jones?

 

[Nate banged my mom]

And NEW...

 

[Airdack]

who cares anymore? Jon's last exciting striker performance was years back against Glover. Jon just goes out there and uses his unnatural frame to throw pot shots, knee kicks, and the rare committed strike. Anytime someone pushes the pace on him he will literally run away to avoid an exchange, hes done it multiple fights now. Then he runs back to the center of the octagon and repeats the same boring shit for 5 rounds.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

Some good fun to be had by hearing ya Boiy Joe Soliz bump in his own wordz to the discussion on twitter.

"Dominick Reyes advanced for only 9% of the fight."

When presented with a "significant strike" count... ya Boiy Soliz said:
"Your stat sheet does not include advancing per round and pressure. Check those out and it will make much more sense."

"My judging is in perfect accordance with the Texas State athletic commission's guidelines"

"I have been working for the Texas commission for years I know my job."

His wordz, not mine.

The link to Texas roolz in the OP backs it up though imo. The only debate is how much a Texas judge should count "advancing & pressure" compared to "effective striking & grappling"

 

[KootenayKid]

It's still very surprising that none of the judges saw it for Reyes despite the fact that they all scored the fight differently round by round. I would
have been okay with any winner of a UD or SD 48-47, but a UD with a 49-46 for Jones?

I agree, the scores were very surprising. As I saw it on just a first watch in a loud bar. I gave it 2,4,5 to Jones. But I wasn’t gonna be surprised if they had it 123 for Reyes. One of the judges gave Reyes round 5 I think? I’m really gonna have to rewatch this because even if Reyes got the nod I don’t remember him doing nearly enough to win 5.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Unified rules:
Effective Striking/Grappling shall be considered the first priority of round assessments. Effective Aggressiveness is a „Plan B‟ and should not be considered unless the judge does not see ANY advantage in the Effective Striking/Grappling realm. Cage/Ring Control („Plan C‟) should only be needed when ALL other criteria are 100% even for both competitors. This will be an extremely rare occurrence.

Those aren't my words. They are direct from the unified rules. Source:
http://www.abcboxing.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/2017-Official-MMA-Judging-Criteria.pdf
Second paragraph of the document.
https://www.dca.ca.gov/csac/forms_pubs/publications/unified_rules_2017.pdf
Top of page 2.

Texas Scoring Criteria (old criteria):
(d) Scoring Techniques.

(1) Using the 10-Point Must Scoring System, judges are required to determine a winner of a contest that ends after the scheduled number of rounds have been completed. Ten points must be awarded to the winner of each round and 9 points or less must be awarded to the loser, except for a rare even round, which is scored a 10-10.

(2) Judges must evaluate mixed martial arts techniques, such as effective striking, effective grappling, fighting area control, and effective aggressiveness/defense.

https://www.tdlr.texas.gov/sports/sportsrules.htm#61111

So Jon won that fight because there is not a clear criteria in Texas saying which is more important, moving forward or strikes. Everywhere else strikes are more important.

Pretty amazing. Still doesn’t mean he definitely won. But the more important takeaway is how insane it is that the trajectory of the sport can change so much based on what state we happen to be in.

 

[WarFan90]

Well said TS.

This thread should be bumped to the top of Sherdog regularly untill people start understanding that Texas counts "fighting area control" right next to "effective striking & grappling."

I still need to re-watch it as I'm curious to see if Reyes would've won under the new roolz imo... but I think it becomes much clearer knowing the Texas roolz.

Another fun thought is whether or not Jones was being strategic and personally picked Texas to fight in because he recognized Reyes was going to be skating side to side next to the octogon the whole time.

I wasnt aware Texas had different scoring values, this has me wondering if the ufc purposefully scheduled this fight there, or if knowing this jones camp pushed a ring control heavy game plan knowing the scoring would be done this way. Regardless the biggest fights in the sport should not be decided by state athletic commissions rules on judging. If that is the case, all title fights should be held in the same state, and even further ALL fights should be held in the same state or atleast states that adhere to the same rules for judging. If the ufc took a hard line on this I belive any state hoping to host an event would change their criteria to match. Crazy that this is even an issue at this point. Imagine it when the nfl played a game in England they decided they were going to count touchdowns as 1 point. This is ludicrous.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

I wasnt aware Texas had different scoring values, this has me wondering if the ufc purposefully scheduled this fight there

Yup, or Jon himself in a very strategic move knowing he would keep Reyes skating the outside called uncle Dana & requested to fight in Texas.

Regardless the biggest fights in the sport should not be decided by state athletic commissions rules on judging. If that is the case, all title fights should be held in the same state, and even further ALL fights should be held in the same state or atleast states that adhere to the same rules for judging.

I completely agree that these different roolz are ridiculous & can be manipulated. They aren't even clearly defined.

Like how much do we compare "fighting area control" to "effective striking?" There'z no dialog on that. They're just placed next to each other for what could be just as easily interpreted as "equal" factors. Obviously damaging strikes should be considered higher right? Well not according to the black n white of teh Texas roolz

If the ufc took a hard line on this I belive any state hoping to host an event would change their criteria to match.

I just said the same in another thread that the UFC is big enough to tell people that we just won't bring our circus to your state if you don't roll with the new criteria.

Crazy that this is even an issue at this point.

New criteria only put into effect start of 2017 & had to grow a bit. That's only 3 years ago. Maybe they'll all come around.

Imagine it when the nfl played a game in England they decided they were going to count touchdowns as 1 point. This is ludicrous.

Yup, to be fair though, the NFL haz been working out their roolz for like a century longer or so yeah? Based off of Rugby & they slowly adjusted to their own rools. Would be interesting to see how the roolz have developed throughout the yearz for them too. Hell 30 years into their evolution was the start of the 19th century, we're now only 30 years into it in 2020!!