Jon Jones is the best LHW fighter ever, but

[Paynebringer]

...years from now, history will look back at him and see he was too scared to move up to HW when it was clearly obvious that he could have and SHOULD have.

If we're going to argue JJ is the GOAT then we have to take this into consideration. GOAT's transcend the sport, period. JJ still has time and I'd totally root him on but if he wants to transcend the sport and cement himself as a GOAT he should finish his career in the HW division and win a HW belt before he retires. IMO he's no GOAT unless he does that.

Not a GOAT requirement to finish your career in a division you never fought in and not known for, lhw is a far superior division in talent & skill HW is just a big man division, Jon is a tall man not a big one or nowhere near big enough where he struggling to make lhw or heavy enough to be a true blue hw, he'd be one of those HW's we would say should be fighting at lhw...

 

[Portland8242]

Why is Jones obliged to move up? Is he struggling to make 205? Has he ever struggled to make 205? Why should he be forced to fight in a division where he'll regularly be giving up 20+lbs?

 

[FlyingDropKick]

Yes, but he did not beat the HW champion at HW. This is what he must do if he wants GOAT status IMO.

Again, he's the greatest LHW fighter ever. He's beaten HW champs that came down to LHW...but if he wants to cement himself as a GOAT then he should go up to HW and win a HW title. If he doesn't do this, I think people will look back and see that he was afraid to do it.

GOAT status us the most subjective fuckin topic in sports like MMA and Boxing which have many weight classes. No one person can be in every weight so it's a matter of opinion. Like you said IMO he doesn't have to go up or down when there are challengers in his division, and there always will be.

 

[Benoitthegr8]

For Jon Jones to be unequivocally considered the GOAT he needs to:

beat Cormier @HW
win a dynamic fastener match against Gus
beat a bipedal Santos
fight and win convincingly against AJ, only after taking a few Rumblistic Missle Strikes 2 da Melon

no pulsing rule in effect

 

[OmegaRugal]

...years from now, history will look back at him and see he was too scared to move up to HW when it was clearly obvious that he could have and SHOULD have.

If we're going to argue JJ is the GOAT then we have to take this into consideration. GOAT's transcend the sport, period. JJ still has time and I'd totally root him on but if he wants to transcend the sport and cement himself as a GOAT he should finish his career in the HW division and win a HW belt before he retires. IMO he's no GOAT unless he does that.

Many consider GSP the best while he dodged Anderson his entire career.

It's wiser overall to not take big risk and just keep winning than to take a risk and then lose.

GSP knows this.
Jones knows this.

As a fight fan I hate it ... but if I were them ... I would stick to beating up guys I know I can beat than to throw it all away.

Look at DC vs Stipe 2. DC could have retired after Stipe 1 and many would consider him as the HW GOAT.
But for taking that risk again, he instead is not even top 5 all time HW for most people.

 

[michaelmichaelmichael90]

this is still the absolute dumbest argument in the sport today. Why id it that Jones has to move up to solitify his spot. Why didn't GSP have to move up, which I know he did to fight Bisping but he waas considered the GOAT way before then, or Mighty Mouse or if Khabib continues his dominance, why not him. Weight classes were made for a reason. Even though I feel he could do well at heavyweight, if he faces someone like Francis, he'd be outweighed by 30lbs. I'm not sure if ur aware of how unoriginal and monotonous this argument has gotten, maybe ur new to the whole MMA world, so that's what I'm gonna tell myself. U just don't know better.

FYI: I F'N HATE JJ more than I've ever hated a fighter, but to say he's not the GOAT bc of the move is just so stupid. Now the failed drug tests, then u got yourself a better argument

 

[khabib time]

...years from now, history will look back at him and see he was too scared to move up to HW when it was clearly obvious that he could have and SHOULD have.

If we're going to argue JJ is the GOAT then we have to take this into consideration. GOAT's transcend the sport, period. JJ still has time and I'd totally root him on but if he wants to transcend the sport and cement himself as a GOAT he should finish his career in the HW division and win a HW belt before he retires. IMO he's no GOAT unless he does that.

If Jones doesn't cut enough weight to move down to fight and beat Cejudo (double champ) then he isn't the GOAT in my book. He's rich and smart enough to figure out how to cut enough weight to make that happen. Until he does he's just the greatest LHW champion and mixed martial artist but not the GOAT.
More on Goats

 

[michaelmichaelmichael90]

Hes 31 and defeated the HW champion twice.
Hes defeated the HW champ of every major mma organization.

Hes a LHW with nothing to prove.
He can go to HW in his late 30s and clear that out too. If he even bothers.

But we know when he does that, "HW was really never that good, he was ducking MW"

The last sentence is completely spot on. which is why this is so ridiculous

 

[kingskot]

Sort of like how nobody remembers GSP?

 

[Verace]

Get off of Sherdog, jon, it's embarrassing .

Dude you are the funniest thing going right now for me on sherdog.

I could literally prove you wrong in one sentence, but Imma let this continue for a bit just to watch you embarrass yourself longer

 

[91 seconds]

He's already cemented himself as one of the g.o.a.t but in a way I do agree. If he went up and was beating the division above him then he would have a legitimate spot as the baddest mma fighter we've ever seen, meaning regardless of the division if you put them all in a cage regardless of weight he'd come out on top. Guys like GSP and Khabib are never going to reach that status. Jones has potential to do it but there will always be a question mark on how he would fare against guys like Stipe, Ngannou etc..where a lot of his physical advantages are nullified. That's just the way it is.

Not saying I don't blame him for not going up, seems to make LHW fine. That speculation at HW won't go away though. You'll have people say he could've dominated but I'm not sure I agree. He doesn't do it for a reason and he and his team know more than any of us why that is.

 

[Sweater of AV]

If you can't prove you can beat people bigger than you and have failed multiple tests then you're nowhere near GOAT status. It is what it is.

 

[Captain Herb]

Jon Jones is the Barry Bonds of MMA.

Jon "Bonds" Jones

 

[markg171]

When you can't knock him being 20-0 in the UFC and 14-0 in UFC title fights, knock his weight class.

 

[djacobox372]

Last I checked the current HW champ is 1-1 against a guy that Jones beat TWICE. DC is the best HW of this generation.

History will note that.

 

[Bad Karate]

Jones will be remembered as the goat.

Fixed it for you brodie

 

[Not A Real Fan]

People will look back on Jon Jones the same way we look back on Matt Hughes. The recency bias in 2030 will say Jon Jones was a good fighter for his time but even in his prime he would get killed by any ranked fighter in 2030. They would think this even if he never popped for PEDs.

 

[Mammothman]

If he beats Reyes, the LHW Division is cleared out for a while. It'll take some time for another contender to emerge, so Jones should absolutely move up to HW.

Corey Anderson and Jan Blacowicz are around the corner bro....

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

...years from now, history will look back at him and see he was too scared to move up to HW when it was clearly obvious that he could have and SHOULD have.

If we're going to argue JJ is the GOAT then we have to take this into consideration. GOAT's transcend the sport, period. JJ still has time and I'd totally root him on but if he wants to transcend the sport and cement himself as a GOAT he should finish his career in the HW division and win a HW belt before he retires. IMO he's no GOAT unless he does that.

Only if years from now they decide that weight divisions shouldn't exist. And they might have a case -- every combat sport (including MMA) started without weight divisions.

But so long as there are weight divisions, a fighter staying in his weight division makes sense. Why have weight divisions in the first place if you're expected to fight outside of your weight division?

 

[michaelmichaelmichael90]

Only if years from now they decide that weight divisions shouldn't exist. And they might have a case -- every combat sport (including MMA) started without weight divisions.

But so long as there are weight divisions, a fighter staying in his weight division makes sense. Why have weight divisions in the first place if you're expected to fight outside of your weight division?

Well said