Jon Jones felt big. The HW's did not. Getting it yet?

[Paynebringer]

So, why did he ragdoll HWs with similar physical advantages, and not LHW Jones?

Remind me which HW's he ragdolled?

 

[Elysianwing]

Spoiler

most dominant show on TNT from 2008-2012, possibly.

 

[Devout Pessimist]

Stopped reading here.

You do not know what you are watching.

Edit: damn it's brown belt as shit up in this thread

Hilarious!

 

[shoopdowoop]

Why aren't all the top wrestlers in the word lanky and built like Jones if his physique is such a massive advantage in wrestling?

The lanky guys are playing basketball.

 

[Sigmafight]

I get how simple machines work. Humans are not simple machines. Like boards and bricks, tires don't fight back. They don't adjust. Humans are not stationary objects. Plus you sacrifice distance for force, or vice versa. Nothing is free.

But the governing physical principals still apply.

My main point is actually not something that is up for discussion, or rather shouldn't be.

There are such things as facts

 

[cyrusthevyrus]

Jones will be beaten at HW.

 

[jebrady03]

TS... Am I to understand that it is your opinion that JJ should vacate the LHW division which he has no problem making weight for (and in fact, has said it's actually getting easier) and move to the HW division because... YOU think it's unfair that he's leveraging his genetic differences?

Look... I'm actually NOT a fan of weight cutting. I think it's horse shit and that everyone should compete at their natural weight class (HW would have an ENORMOUSLY deep roster if the weight range was maintained as even some WW would be in there if we look back historically - hell, Gleison Tibau would be a LHW). But the fact is, he's playing by the rules and maintaining his dominance. Your arguments are therefore... HORSESHIT. Get over your sense of self-importance, entitlement, and omnipotence and find something else to bitch about. YOU are not that important... to anyone. And Jon Jones especially doesn't give a flying fuck what you think and he's the only one that should.

 

[loisestrad]

yup.

However, in NBA, EVERYONE recognizes Shaq's physical gift and dominance. No one ever said shaq is all skill and disregard his superb physical attributes.

I don't think anyone disregards Jones physical attributes. That would be stupid, as they're part of what makes him the fighter he is.

What is even more stupid though is doing the opposite and completely disregard his skills, only attributing his sucess to the physical attributes.

 

[hymn]

But the governing physical principals still apply.

My main point is actually not something that is up for discussion, or rather shouldn't be.

There are such things as facts

yeah, like the fact that a physique like Jones's is not categorically an advantage in wrestling, proven over and over through a sort of natural selection in a brutally competitive system.

This is my last post in this thread, if you're going to be dishonest and ignore the best arguments there's no point in discussing at all.

 

[Sigmafight]

TS... Am I to understand that it is your opinion that JJ should vacate the LHW division which he has no problem making weight for (and in fact, has said it's actually getting easier) and move to the HW division because... YOU think it's unfair that he's leveraging his genetic differences?

Look... I'm actually NOT a fan of weight cutting. I think it's horse shit and that everyone should compete at their natural weight class (HW would have an ENORMOUSLY deep roster if the weight range was maintained as even some WW would be in there if we look back historically). But the fact is, he's playing by the rules and maintaining his dominance. Your arguments are therefore... HORSESHIT. Get over your sense of self-importance, entitlement, and omnipotence and find something else to bitch about. YOU are not that important... to anyone. And Jon Jones especially doesn't give a flying fuck what you think and he's the only one that should.

No. You are talking practical solutions... i think...

I am simply trying to draw a line somewhere between skill and physique

 

[Sigmafight]

yeah, like the fact that a physique like Jones's is not an advantage in wrestling, proven over and over through a sort of natural selection in a brutally competitive system.

This is MMA wrestling.

Not gay porn wrestling.

There is a distinct difference

 

[redbrownhaze]

DC used speed attacks to defeat the other bigger heavyweights that he's faced. No heavyweight was used to that speed! This is pretty much why people were comparing him to Fedor. Jones was ready for the speed yet he also kept his own attack going. No heavyweight was able to keep their offense up enough to keep DC back.

Jones was hitting him in the body with his hands and knees. No one else has done that to him. Go back and watch the interviews he mentioned the body shots several times.
Jones had a game plan, Ts thinks he just went out there and out leveraged the man lol.

 

[FallonFoxGOAT]

Because that's the important part of this discussion right?

Or was it because you want to ignore the things I said about your favourite fighter, and talk about this some more? Forget addressing if "DC really rag dolled JJ" lets talk about the people who disagree being haters.

Keep derailing and attacking. You're insecure and its obvious. It's not going to make anyone like your favourite fighter. Get over it. I'm not going to stop posting my thoughts on the fight.

I am going to say that I do not mind you as a poster, and you were a decent poster before Jones beat DC.

Afterwards, you have come off as nothing short of upset (butthurt, if you would prefer, since you want a typical Jon Jones fanboy reply)

However, I will go ahead and play your game and contribute to the thread.

Lol @ the JJ fans refusing to read. Same guys will post "Jones rag dolled DC".

TS is addressing the hysteria that JJ outclassed DC. JJ won round one by being Jones, keeping distance and punishing a DC moving in.

He wanted to prove a point by 'out dcing' DC in the following two rounds and he didn't win either of them unanimously. Then he was gassed and put a weak following two rounds. It wasn't that impressive. He used his advantages to just get by on those rounds. JJ lost points to his ego. It's not something these vicarious JJ fans should be proud of.

How is TS addressing that hysteria? His whole post was pretty much "hurrdurr Jones won because he is bigger. Jones lacks skill, put his weight on DC, only had success because of his reach and height. DC even said he felt bigger than HWs111"

Never does he say anything about the "hysteria" of Jones fans saying he outclassed DC. That was you, being overly defensive and clinging to any and all threads that downplay or attack Jones' performance.

Then you said:

Classic JJ fan response "Oh you just think that cuz u mad".

Don't you get tired of creating excuses for every opinion you don't like?

All you do is ignore discussion and attack character. It's the reason you were one of the highest voted for worst poster. Talking to you is a wrestling match nobody is interested in.

I never replied that you think anything because you are mad, I merely suspected (quite rightly so given your responses) that you may be upset that Jones won. I don't imagine you would be this bent out of shape if DC had the belt.

I also did not make any excuses for anything, keep reaching, I guess?

Then you accuse me of ignoring discussion and attacking character...as you do the same thing to me. It's kind of weird and funny all at the same time.

Now back to this post:

Because that's the important part of this discussion right?

Or was it because you want to ignore the things I said about your favourite fighter, and talk about this some more? Forget addressing if "DC really rag dolled JJ" lets talk about the people who disagree being haters.

Keep derailing and attacking. You're insecure and its obvious. It's not going to make anyone like your favourite fighter. Get over it. I'm not going to stop posting my thoughts on the fight.

All you said is he didn't outclass DC. I would argue that he did, seeing as he used DC's game plan against him and won the fight 4-1 regardless of how close some of the rounds were. Had someone posted on here before the fight that Jones will out wrestle and out clinch DC to a decision, people would have said they were an idiot. And yet, he did. And you down play it every chance you get.

Also, I do not want anyone on Sherdog to like Jones. We at the Eye Poke Army do not need any band wagon fans.

You call me insecure, yet all your posts reek of insecurity. I think you might be projecting a little.

No one is telling you not to post your thoughts on the fight, but it's pretty obvious to everyone that you are upset.

Edit: and as a side note, it's a downright travesty that Da Speeit beat me in that poll.

 

[straight6]

I don't think anyone disregards Jones physical attributes. That would be stupid, as they're part of what makes him the fighter he is.

What is even more stupid though is doing the opposite and completely disregard his skills, only attributing his sucess to the physical attributes.

true. his skills + unique built/size is what makes him so deadly and dominant at 205.

 

[Elysianwing]

lol Gay porn wrestling.

Guess size and leverage don't matter much in gay porn wrestling.

 

[uWot]

If Jones can make LHW without his health suffering, I don't see a problem.

It sucks for those who can't cut down a weight class for whatever reason, but that's how the game is currently operated.

Mandatory: don't hate the playa hate the game.

 

[Dman4Life8017]

A lot of people don't get what DC, and Chael meant when "He felt big" or "He was bigger than I expected". What they mean is, is even though they've fought guys bigger than they are from a physical standpoint, they never actually used that physicality to their advantage. Jon Jones knows how to use his body to his advantage. This is not just from a striking standpoint either. He knows how to smother you in the clinch, and impose his presence on you. He can "grind" on you to make you carry his size to sap your stamina. When Jon gets hold of you, it's hard to break his grip because he has such long arms and can easily wrap them around any point on your body combined with his great greco-roman wrestling ability, he understands the power of leverage extremely well.

Even though DC has fought Heavyweights that are bigger than he is in physical stature: Monson, Silva, Barnett, Mir, Roy Nelson, not one of them used their physical advantage against him because that is not their specialty/how they fight. Monson is a pure submission fighter, but not much of a wrestler. If he gets you down to the ground, yea, he was one of the best in that area. Silva's got excellent submissions and very good striking but he's very slow. Against a much faster opponent, Silva doesn't stand a chance. He's a sandbag. Barnett's fighting style is catch wrestling. Catch wrestling is a derivative of professional wrestling that was used in the 1920s - 1960s that was based off amateur wrestling. It's not a strength based style. Mir's specialty is submissions off the ground, mainly off his back. Not the clinch game or standing grappling. Nelson's specialty is his power even though he is said to be a high level grappler.

 

[Yolandabecool**]

Take 5" off his reach and 2" off his height, put 3" of reach and 1" of height on DC, and then see what happens.

If he beats him then, then we can call it skill.

All 250-280lb [20-50lb Weight Advantage]

Soa: 81 inch Reach. 9 inch advantage.
Mir: 79 inch Reach. 7 inch advantage.
Bigfoot: 82 inch Reach. 10 inch advantage.
Barnett: 78 inch Reach. 6 inch advantage.
Cole: 80.5 inch Reach. 9 inch advantage.

What's their excuse?

 

[...El Ray]

Remind me which HW's he ragdolled?

He's comfortably outgrappled everyone he's fought (including big HWs), slamming a few opponents like they were children. He didn't outgrapple Jones, because Jones is better than them. You don't feel ''bigger'' than people bigger than you unless you have the skill to do so.

 

[Priceinator]

No one is telling you not to post your thoughts on the fight, but it's pretty obvious to everyone that you are upset.

Yep.

So many jimmies get rustled when Jones wins. It's freakin' hilarious.