[Jon Jones Fans] If it is proven through CIR tests...

[SHAZAM]

go do some coke, Jon. Lose some fans

Lmfao

But yeah, if he gets caught I won't count any of his wins.

We'll have to debate who's LHW GOAT between Chuck, Wand, Shogun, Page and Machida.

 

[Rittsy]

While I would've agreed with you the NSAC doesn't care maybe a few days ago, doesn't it seem at least a little weird they—a government agency—would tell Dana—a head of a privately owned company—about Jones getting caught riding the white pony but wouldn't tell Jones or anyone else until later after a big fight that brought a lot of business to Nevada?

I don't pretend to know, but some of it looks peculiar.

Yeah, it is weird. But if they were corrupt wouldn't they could just ditch the results.

This seems more like incompetence than corruption. The test itself was fucked up since they weren't even supposed to be looking for coke. I just don't think being bad at their job implies a criminal conspiracy. They screw up and make bad decisions a lot.

I just think them not testing Jones further would be the result of indifference and not seeing any reason to, rather than them being on the take.

 

[Shogun Rising]

Yeah, it is weird. But if they were corrupt wouldn't they could just ditch the results.

This seems more like incompetence than corruption. The test itself was fucked up since they weren't even supposed to be looking for coke. I just don't think being bad at their job implies a criminal conspiracy. They screw up and make bad decisions a lot.

I don't really think they're textbook corrupt. I think they're just conveniently incompetent, which is kind of corrupt but more just typical American business practicum.

People know Jon was tested randomly. He did a twitter thing about it or whatever. They would've had to have a test result on record.

They said a reporter had to request the result, and that it wasn't officially offered up. I think it's an interesting story and look forward to it spinning out.

 

[UJustGotChaeld]

Why would I need to source your being a Chael nuthugger?

You defended him vehemently when he failed his first test.

If you mean the test he was taking TRT for then what did I defend? I defended against the ignorance he had 16x the normal level of T in his system. His T:E test was meaningless, he was on TRT. He had no TUE, he deserved to be punished and was.

I doubt that huggery went away after he was proven to have taken steroids (which made you look like the most delusional nuthugging idiot in the world, btw)

Gee with someone like you thinking I'm bad whatever will I do.

The fact that you are unwilling to say one way or the other right now other than "hurrdurr source it" shows that you are still a fan and in fact, a hypocrite living in denial.

Yeah why source it when you can talk out your ass and say whatever you want.

You are a moron and a troll, and have been proven such over and over. I said Chael deserved to be banned for what he did. The reason you should source something is because any moron can go around talking shit and looking like a fool, like you just did. Next time source it so you can find out you are a moron before you post.

 

[UJustGotChaeld]

Oh for fuck sake, read what I'm saying. The Commission doesn't give a fuck about Jones. They are a regulatory body. They could decide they don't have the budget for it, even if the UFC has provided extra funds. They might just decide there is no reason for further testing because they wont have to deal with the fallout.

Except there is no fallout for the NSAC .. unless they do not test further, then they have a storm on their hands. So the only reason they would endure such criticism is if someone greased their palms.

Every expert on PEDs says it needs to be tested. They have the money to test it. There will be severe backlash if they do not. The only reason to endure all that is serious green.

 

[Rittsy]

I don't really think they're textbook corrupt. I think they're just conveniently incompetent, which is kind of corrupt but more just typical American business practicum.

People know Jon was tested randomly. He did a twitter thing about it or whatever. They would've had to have a test result on record.

They said a reporter had to request the result, and that it wasn't officially offered up. I think it's an interesting story and look forward to it spinning out.

Hey, look, maybe there is something there. I'm just saying I don't think there's some money changing hands or something to keep this hush hush. I just think it's more likely that the NSAC looks at the results, shrugs its shoulders and says 'No PEDs. No masking agents. Looks clean.' rather than deliberately trying to cover something up.

Indifference to the situation, rather than any deliberate moves.

 

[Yolandabecool**]

I'll have to wait and see what "more than likely" means. Intermittent cocaine use does cause testosterone fluctuations in and of itself--particularly weekend-long binges--entirely independent of PEDs. I'll presume innocence if the fluctuation itself is the only evidence.

But it won't take much more to undermine my presumption--provided the source is several light years removed from the Sherdog Forum investigative journalism team.

Either way I'll still be a fan, but if he's guilty it will be seriously disappointing.

I didn't really know much about cocaines relationship to test levels but it appears as though the coke really doesn't affect test levels much at all.

This is one of the articles I found: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8819502

"Neither cocaine nor placebo induced a change in testosterone levels."

They didn't test for coke on the 18th so he may well have been snorting but it appears that it doesn't alter the levels too much [If at all].

That being said stress response is known to significantly lower test levels. If you're in a brutal training camp and outside influences aren't ideal, it can lead to significant changes.

Considering he was in such good condition on the night of the fight though either:

a.) He is one of the most mentally strong people on the planet and he overcame it or

b.) He was in fact doping - Which seems the more probable option.

 

[Jin Akutsu]

I didn't really know much about cocaines relationship to test levels but it appears as though the coke really doesn't affect test levels much at all.

This is one of the articles I found: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8819502

"Neither cocaine nor placebo induced a change in testosterone levels."

They didn't test for coke on the 18th so he may well have been snorting but it appears that it doesn't alter the levels top much [If at all].

That being said stress response is known to significantly lower test levels. If you're in a brutal training camp and outside influences aren't ideal, it can lead to significant changes.

Considering he was in such good condition on the night of the fight though either:

a.) He is one of the most mentally strong people on the planet and he overcame it or

b.) He was in fact doping - Which seems the more probable option.

Great post.

 

[sohocanaan22]

No its T/E ratio, which is normally 1:1. His was a suspicious 0.25:1 and then an even lower 0.19:1. It looks like low testosterone but results show its really high epitestosterone in proportion to normal testosterone

You lost me. I think I've got a grasp (feeble) of what you mention here, but your earlier note included, "His Epitestosterone was abnormally high, it went from 6.1 ng to 27 ng."

If that's abnormally high, what is normal? Got me?

 

[Rittsy]

Except there is no fallout for the NSAC .. unless they do not test further, then they have a storm on their hands. So the only reason they would endure such criticism is if someone greased their palms.

Every expert on PEDs says it needs to be tested. They have the money to test it. There will be severe backlash if they do not. The only reason to endure all that is serious green.

The NSAC gets criticized all the time. They don't care. This is why they can be such a frustrating commission to deal with...they're looked to as a leader but they're just a mess.

They could say no to further testing purely out of indifference and leave the responsibility on the UFC's shoulders. They can pass the buck. They are terrible at what they do. I cannot stress that enough. They will take the path where they can pass the blame and avail themselves of all responsibility. Not because they're corrupt, but because they're really shitty.

I want them to test further. But I don't think they will.

 

[UJustGotChaeld]

They could say no to further testing purely out of indifference and leave the responsibility on the UFC's shoulders. They can pass the buck.

I don't think they can actually. They have the sample. They have to keep the sample for X amount of time. They can not just give the sample to anyone else, that would breach chain of custody.

Drug testing has very strict protocols.

 

[Rittsy]

I don't think they can actually. They have the sample. They have to keep the sample for X amount of time. They can not just give the sample to anyone else, that would breach chain of custody.

Drug testing has very strict protocols.

I mean, still handle the samples, but place any further costs for testing with the UFC. Basically say "We've tested the samples to WADA standards and have found no traces of PEDs or masking agents. We and WADA experts feel this is sufficient. Any additional testing costs will be incurred by the promotion." or something.

More or less doing the bare minimum unless they receive extra funds.

 

[sohocanaan22]

I didn't really know much about cocaines relationship to test levels but it appears as though the coke really doesn't affect test levels much at all.

This is one of the articles I found: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8819502

"Neither cocaine nor placebo induced a change in testosterone levels."

They didn't test for coke on the 18th so he may well have been snorting but it appears that it doesn't alter the levels too much [If at all].

That being said stress response is known to significantly lower test levels. If you're in a brutal training camp and outside influences aren't ideal, it can lead to significant changes.

Considering he was in such good condition on the night of the fight though either:

a.) He is one of the most mentally strong people on the planet and he overcame it or

b.) He was in fact doping - Which seems the more probable option.

I can't begin to play armchair researcher, but the medical understanding of the effects of drug abuse on the body has increased exponentially since 1996. I won't pretend to understand if that study has been mooted, and there's a ton of conflicting science re: addiction, but a different perspective on this is out there now.

I've actually been in the room when a board-certified, addiction specialist, etc., etc. described the testosterone swing. I've actually heard it twice, from two different doctors. (Family member is a chronic relapse, etc., etc.)

I'm perfectly open to the idea that he used PEDs, I just haven't seen anything convincing--yet--and I can't help relating such a pertinent anecdote.

For the record: I think he should be stripped/suspended no matter what--simply for the coke. To my mind, an open-secret coke problem is a much worse/bigger deal than cheating with PEDs, but I went on way too long about that elsewhere...

 

[UJustGotChaeld]

I mean, still handle the samples, but place any further costs for testing with the UFC. Basically say "We've tested the samples to WADA standards and have found no traces of PEDs or masking agents. We and WADA experts feel this is sufficient. Any additional testing costs will be incurred by the promotion." or something.

More or less doing the bare minimum unless they receive extra funds.

As I said, the UFC is giving them funds to do testing. WADA experts have already come forward and said more testing needs to be done.

I already covered everything you just said.

 

[CarloSpcyWeiner]

I'll still like him.

 

[Rittsy]

As I said, the UFC is giving them funds to do testing. WADA experts have already come forward and said more testing needs to be done.

I already covered everything you just said.

Okay. I just don't think NSAC handling this in their usual crappy way is evidence of corruption.

 

[UJustGotChaeld]

Okay. I just don't think NSAC handling this in their usual crappy way is evidence of corruption.

Right now it's not. There is no evidence of corruption. Going forward, if they refuse to test, it's hard to imagine that happening without corruption, because there is literally zero reason for them not to test, and a multitude to test.

 

[Rittsy]

Right now it's not. There is no evidence of corruption. Going forward, if they refuse to test, it's hard to imagine that happening without corruption, because there is literally zero reason for them not to test, and a multitude to test.

Oh I agree there's reasons to test. There's plenty. I just think their general shitiness outweighs their corruption. If they don't test, their reason will be the equivalent of a shoulder shrug rather than any money changing hands.

 

[Deffid]

Lmfao

But yeah, if he gets caught I won't count any of his wins.

We'll have to debate who's LHW GOAT between Chuck, Wand, Shogun, Page and Machida.

So you would not count Jones' wins but Wand is in the discussion for LHW GOAT? Is this a joke? Not only did he run from a test, he also had almost all of his good wins in Pride, where he was "in pretty good shape" all the time.

As for Jones, I don't know. I don't really care about PEDs, since most top athletes and most MMA fighters are on them. I knew he was fake but I never imagined him being that much of a douche. I'm not sure if I'm still a fan..

 

[MortalWombat]

I'll watch every fight.