Joint Health (Preventative)

Fish oil, with Krill oil being the best. The key is to take a sufficient dosage...depending on your weight, but I wouldn't take less than 15-20 grams daily. I work with numerous baseball pitchers who through up to 97 mph and fish oil is keep to their recovery and joint integrity. As for other herbs and supplements, I also have my athletes take Wobenzym N.

Good Luck
 
The key is to take a sufficient dosage...depending on your weight, but I wouldn't take less than 15-20 grams daily.

By the dosing standards of most bottles, that's extremely high. Unless I seen scientific research that amounts that high were more beneficial than doses of 1-5 grams per day, I wouldn't spend my money on it. Do you know of any research that compares higher amounts like that to lower amounts? (I've only seen research on depression which says 1gm = 2gm = 4gm.
 
but you have to be careful because too much of it and you'll bruise and bleed easily.

After reading this...it got me thinking. Now i have been sick for about 2weeks and I havent eaten very well #1 because of it...but I was still taking about 3.6g of fish oils. I have bruises on my legs and arms from just playing a little bit with my son. Now I dont know if its because I was sick...or I just bruise easily. Do you bruise easily when your sick?? Probably a stupid question.
 
Cissus quadrangularis

Cissus quadrangularis is an ancient medicinal plant native to the hotter parts of Ceylon and India. It was prescribed in the ancient Ayurvedic texts as a general tonic and analgesic, with specific bone fracture healing properties. Modern research has shed light on Cissus' ability to speed bone healing by showing it acts as a glucocorticoid antagonist (1,2). Since anabolic/androgenic compounds are well known to act as antagonists to the glucocorticoid receptor as well as promote bone growth and fracture healing, it has been postulated that Cissus possesses anabolic and/or androgenic properties (1,3). In addition to speeding the remodeling process of the healing bone, Cissus also leads to a much faster increase in bone tensile strength. In clinical trials Cissus has led to a fracture healing time on the order of 55 to 33 percent of that of controls. That cissus exerts antiglucocorticoid properties is suggested by a number of studies where bones were weakend by treatment with cortisol, and upon administration of Cissus extract the cortisol induced weakening was halted, and the healing process begun.

While the increased rate of bone healing may be of great significance to persons suffering from chronic diseases like osteoporosis (4), the antiglucocorticoid properties of Cissus are likely of much more interest to the average bodybuilder or athlete, since endogenous glucocorticoids, particularly cortisol, are not only catabolic to bone, but catabolize muscle tissue as well. Numerous studies over the years have suggested that glucorticoids, including the body's endogenous hormone cortisol activate pathways that degrade not only bone, but skeletal muscle tissue as well. A recently published report documented exactly how glucocorticoids (including cortisol) induce muscle breakdown: They activate the so-called ubiquitin-proteasome pathway of proteolysis (5). This pathway of tissue breakdown is important for removing damaged and non-functional proteins. However, when it is overactive during periods of elevated cortisol (e.g disease states, stress, and overtraining) excess amounts of normal tissue are broken down as well. By exerting an anabolic, antiglucorticoid effect cissus helps preserve muscle tissue during times of physical and emotional stress.

Although the bulk of the research on Cissus centers around bone healing, the possibility exists that Cissus may act to improve bone healing it may improve the healing rate of connective tissue in general, including tendons. If this is the case it would be of great benefit to bodybuilders and athletes.

Besides the above-mentioned properties of Cissus, the plant is also rich in the vitamins/antioxidants vitamin C and beta-carotene. As analyzed, Cissus quadrangularis contained ascorbic acid 479 mg, and carotene 267 units per 100g of freshly prepared paste in addition to calcium oxalate (6).

The typical recommended daily dosage of Cissus extract is between 100 and 500 mg, depending on the concentration of the extract and the severity of symptoms. For the powder of the dried plant, the Ayurvedic texts recommend a dosage of 3 to 6 grams to accelerate fracture healing. Safety studies in rats showed no toxic effects at dosages as high as 2000 mg/kg of body weight. So not only is Cissus efficacious, it is also quite safe, in either the dried powder form or the commercially available extract.

Cissus also possess analgesic properties on a mg per mg basis comparable to aspirin or anti-inflammatory drugs like ibuprofen. Cissus quadrangularis constitutes one of the ingredients of an Ayurvedic preparation, `Laksha Gogglu', which has been proved to be highly effective in relieving pain, reduction of swelling and promoting the process of healing of the simple fractures as well as in curing the allied disorders associated with fractures (7). The mechanism through which Cissus exerts its analgesic and anti-inflammatory properties has not been well characterized. It may act centrally, but the anti-inflammatory features suggest that it acts by preventing the conversion of arachidonic acid to inflammatory prostaglandins.


1) Chopra SS, Patel MR, Awadhiya RP. Studies of Cissus quadrangularis in experimental fracture repair : a histopathological study Indian J Med Res. 1976 Sep;64(9):1365-8

2) Chopra SS, Patel MR, Gupta LP, Datta IC. Studies on Cissus quadrangularis in experimental fracture repair: effect on chemical parameters in blood Indian J Med Res. 1975 Jun;63(6):824-8.

3) PRASAD GC, UDUPA KN. EFFECT OF CISSUS QUADRANGULARIS ON THE HEALING OF CORTISONE TREATED FRACTURES. Indian J Med Res. 1963 Jul;51:667-76.

4) Shirwaikar A, Khan S, Malini S. Antiosteoporotic effect of ethanol extract of Cissus quadrangularis Linn. on ovariectomized rat. J Ethnopharmacol. 2003 Dec;89(2-3):245-50.

5) Combaret L, Taillandier D, Dardevet D, Bechet D, Ralliere C, Claustre A, Grizard J, Attaix D Glucocorticoids regulate mRNA levels for subunits of the 19 S regulatory complex of the 26 S proteasome in fast-twitch skeletal muscles. Biochem J. 2004 Feb 15;378(Pt 1):239-46.

6) Chidambara Murthy KN, Vanitha A, Mahadeva Swamy M, Ravishankar GA. Antioxidant and antimicrobial activity of Cissus quadrangularis L. J Med Food. 2003 Summer;6(2):99-105.

7) Panda, J Res Ayurv Siddha, 1990, 11, 7

Indian studies, promoting an Indian herb. That has always been the problem with cissus research.
 
So what. They could look at ours in the same way. Australia puts out great studies. Point being, take it or leave it.
 
You want good joints? Dont play football, it destroys your body. Worst part is you dont feel it til you're in your twenties.
 
So what. They could look at ours in the same way. Australia puts out great studies. Point being, take it or leave it.

You have a point but I've always been skeptical of those studies as well but not because they are from India. I've heard that most, if not all, of the studies on Cissus and bone/joint health were preformed with less than optimal protocols such as not having placebo groups or being double blind. I can't find the actual studies and Pubmed doesn't even have the abstracts. Part of that may just be because they're so old (60's & 70's). But I'll be honest and say that I don't know if what I've heard is true because I haven't been able to see the studies myself.

There is, however, and overwhelming amount of anecdotal evidence out there.

EDIT:

Vedic said:
I do a "warrior wellness" type of routine daily, and it helped a lot.

Can you give an quick example of what you mean by "warrior wellness" routine? I'm not familiar with that.
 
That could be true. My only point is that some were done. Now were they what everyone wanted? No, of course not. But frankly most people take things without ever researching it, because their doctor told them so etc.

Sucks too, because it is one of the few products out there, that I really got results from.
 
I agree, Vedic.

Hey, you're too fast :D. I just edited my post and asked you a question. I'm not sure if you saw it.
 
Ohhhhh. Its Scott Sonnons joint mobility. Its moving you joints through different plains of motion etc. Almost like a active stretching routine, except you don't stretch lol.
 
Its concerning weight loss, but here is a study done here, and a double blind at that.

1: Lipids Health Dis. 2008 Mar 31;7(1):12 [Epub ahead of print]Click here to read Links
The use of a Cissus quadrangularis/Irvingia gabonensis combination in the management of weight loss: a double-blind placebo-controlled study.
Oben JE, Ngondi JL, Momo CN, Agbor GA, Makamto Sobgui CS.

ABSTRACT: Aim: To evaluate the effects of two formulations, Cissus quadrangularis-only and a Cissus quadrangularis/Irvingia gabonensis combination, on weight loss in overweight and obese human subjects. METHODS: The study was a 10 week randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled design involving 72 obese or overweight participants (45.8% male; 54.2% female; ages 21a44; mean age = 29.3). The participants were randomly divided into three equal (n=24) groups: placebo, Cissus quadrangularis-only, and Cissus quadrangularis/Irvingia gabonensis combination. Capsules containing the placebo or active formulations were administered twice daily before meals; no major dietary changes nor exercises were suggested during the study. A total of six anthropomorphic and serological measurements (body weight, body fat, waist size; total plasma cholesterol, LDL cholesterol, fasting blood glucose level) were taken at baseline and at 4, 8 and 10 weeks. RESULTS: Compared to the placebo group, the two active groups showed a statistically significant difference on all six variables by week 10. The magnitude of the differences was noticeable by week 4 and continued to increase over the trial period. CONCLUSION: Although the Cissus quadrangularis-only group showed significant reductions on all variables compared to the placebo group, the Cissus quadrangularis/Irvingia gabonensis combination resulted in even larger reductions. This apparently synergistic formulation should prove helpful in the management of obesity and its related complications.
 
Or a anti inflamatory in India for hemroids lol


J Ethnopharmacol. 2007 Mar 21;110(2):264-70. Epub 2006 Sep 26.Click here to read Links
Analgesic, anti-inflammatory and venotonic effects of Cissus quadrangularis Linn.
Panthong A, Supraditaporn W, Kanjanapothi D, Taesotikul T, Reutrakul V.

Department of Pharmacology, Faculty of Medicine, Chiang Mai University, Chiang Mai 50200, Thailand. [email protected]

Cissus quadrangularis, a medicinal plant indigenous to Asia and Africa, is used for many ailments, especially for the treatment of hemorrhoid. The effects associated with hemorrhoid, i.e. analgesic and anti-inflammatory activities as well as the venotonic effect of the methanol extract of C. quadrangularis (CQ) were assessed in comparison with reference drugs. In the analgesic test, CQ provoked a significant reduction of the number of writhes in acetic acid-induced writhing response in mice. CQ also significantly reduced the licking time in both phases of the formalin test. The results suggest peripheral and central analgesic activity of CQ. In acute phase of inflammation CQ elicited the inhibitory effect on the edema formation of the rats' ear induced by ethyl phenylpropiolate as well as on the formation of the paw edema in rats induced by both carrageenin and arachidonic acid. It is likely that CQ is a dual inhibitor of arachidonic acid ****bolism. In addition, CQ exerted venotonic effect on isolated human umbilical vein similarly to the mixture of bioflavonoids, i.e. 90% diosmin and 10% hesperidin. The results obtained confirmed the traditional use of C. quadrangularis for the treatment of pain and inflammation associated with hemorrhoid as well as reducing the size of hemorrhoids.
 
****bolic syndrome too.


Lipids Health Dis. 2006 Sep 2;5:24.Click here to read Click here to read Links
The use of a Cissus quadrangularis formulation in the management of weight loss and ****bolic syndrome.
Oben J, Kuate D, Agbor G, Momo C, Talla X.

Department of Biochemistry, University of Yaound
 
Lipids Health Dis. 2007 Feb 4;6:4.Click here to read Click here to read Links
The effect of Cissus quadrangularis (CQR-300) and a Cissus formulation (CORE) on obesity and obesity-induced oxidative stress.
Oben JE, Enyegue DM, Fomekong GI, Soukontoua YB, Agbor GA.

Laboratory of Nutrition and Nutritional Biochemistry, Department of Biochemistry, University of Yaound
 
Anti-oxidant use as well.


: J Med Food. 2003 Summer;6(2):99-105.Click here to read Links
Antioxidant and antimicrobial activity of Cissus quadrangularis L.
Chidambara Murthy KN, Vanitha A, Mahadeva Swamy M, Ravishankar GA.

Cell Biotechnology Department, Central Food Technological Research Institute, Mysore 570 013, India.

Extracts of Cissus quadrangularis L. were tested for antioxidant activity by beta-carotene linoleic acid model and also by 1,1-diphenyl-2-picrylhydrazyl model. The ethyl acetate fraction of both fresh and dry stem extracts at a concentration of 100 ppm showed 64.8% antioxidant activity in the beta-carotene linoleic acid system and 61.6% in the 1,1-diphenyl-2-picrylhydrazyl system. This fraction showed the presence of sterols, vitamin C, and tannins as phytoconstituents. The antioxidant activity of methanol extract and aqueous extract were comparatively less significant than that of ethyl acetate extract, and n-hexane extract showed the least activity. The ethyl acetate extract and methanol extract of both fresh and dry stems further exhibited antimicrobial activity against Gram-positive bacteria, including Bacillus subtilis, Bacillus cereus, Staphylococcus aureus, and Streptococcus species. The results of the study have implications in the use of C. quadrangularis as an antibacterial agent and more so as an antioxidant in several applications requiring these properties.
 
Ohhhhh. Its Scott Sonnons joint mobility. Its moving you joints through different plains of motion etc. Almost like a active stretching routine, except you don't stretch lol.

Gotcha, I think I know what you mean.

Cool studies above as well. I didn't mean that there weren't any studies with Cissus using proper protocols, I was only referring to the ones in regards to joint/bone healing. Just wanted to clarify that in case you thought I meant otherwise.
 
Nah, I showed them for shits and giggles. Odd to me that most research is found in weight loss, and that arena, but none the less it appears to really have a good effect on lipid profiles more so than anything else.
 
So what. They could look at ours in the same way. Australia puts out great studies. Point being, take it or leave it.

They are not inherently bad because they are Indian. They are questionable because the researchers likely a vested interest (economic, political) in finding cissus to be a miracle herb.

I'm not saying there's nothing to cissus, but I do believe the Indian research tends to hype it quite a bit.
 
*sigh* *chuckles* American research does the same. Who do you think funds them?
 
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