John Wayne Parr made an interesting post on FB. Elite female MT champ vs a male

[m22able7]

Maybe she stands a chance now... however the guy probably went on to become a college wrestler and his skils have gotten sharper aswell.


Random male HS Wrestler > Ronda Rousey

Ronda only trains boxing now, how would that help her do better in wrestling or grappling. She hasn't gotten any more dominate at takedowns and submissions, she was just as good or better before. It is her striking she works on that has improved.

 

[tombombadil]

Ya i was waiting for the women to start fighting for a while.

That being said it was an even fight till she went wild and got caught and went night night.

She got dominated from the get go. Props to her for even taking the fight, that takes guts.

 

[HR]

Ronda only trains boxing now, how would that help her do better in wrestling or grappling. She hasn't gotten any more dominate at takedowns and submissions, she was just as good or better before. It is her striking she works on that has improved.

Her boxing is disgustingly bad and she showcased that vs Bethe. Don't get me wrong though, she looked slick at the open workouts two days prior but vs Bethe in the heat of the moment when Adrenaline is high she threw very primite punches. Looked like she packed all her power into them but technically speaking they were horrendous punches.


Edmund is not a boxing coach though. I do think someone of Rondas caliber under a proper boxing coach could pick it up very quickly and make vast improvements.

 

[fightdonttweet]

This is not surprising at all. What did people expect?

 

[James L]

A lot of men are awfully, horridly pathetic, even if they aren't physically. I never thought JWP would suck, is this his first instance of sucking? How many beatings from so many people will this dead horse receive?

 

[Darkart]

That wasn't just any male MT guy tho (Adam Somchai), he was 14-1 at the time of the fight (the graphic in video is incorrect), and was the NZ national champ.

The video shows that the worlds best female fell short of an above average male in the discipline.

Frankly in MMA/Grappling in general I think the disparity would be even greater. Certainly when Giblert Melendez would grapple with Rousey it looked like he had to expend 0 effort to power out of whatever she tried. Mousasi was the same. I think someone like TJ Dillashaw would KO Rousey via jabs without Ronda ever touching him, he's that much faster. You would have to go to the bottom of regional shows to find a 135lb male that Ronda could have a competitive fight with.

Still shes an amazing talent and athlete for a 135lb woman, but any talk of beating men has been tried by better female athletes than Ronda and they all got smoked as far as I know.

 

[NeverAgainPlaya]

People need to realize street fights do not turn out like martial arts fights, or even mma fights. It is alot more raw and ground fighting is generally just a second tier form of defense. Yes it's valuable to know but if you're fighting off your back you already fucked up in my opinion.

Who's skillset would you rather have in a street fight. Anderson Silvas or Ben Askrens?

The ability to strike accurately and move fast and clean can win 1v2s and even 1v3s. If you are a submission specialist you will most likely get your head kicked in by the guys friend or even headbutted, gouged and all sorts of shit on the ground. It isn't ideal. So these presumptions about how 120 lbs females submit dudes, yes this happens in the gym I've seen it too because its a controlled enviroment and usually these grapples even start from the knees in some scenarios.. in real life though

a 120 lbs female black belt in jiu jitsu vs lets say a 200 lbs NFL player in a street fight I will pick the man any day of the week, it's that simple. He would cave her head in. It does not take a genius to form a fist and hit somebody who is on the ground.


Contrary to popular belief Mark Coleman didnt invent ''ground and pound'' it's been around since the fucking dawn of time.

while i agree that a street fight generally tends to stay vertical, save for moments when someone is really looking to escape further punishment by forcing things to the ground (which isn't always a great idea, as it leaves you open to kicks to the face from anyone surrounding the fight, as I've seen a few times), fights do hit the ground sometimes. I remember getting into it with a guy when I was a junior: this guy was whipping my ass in a savage manner. I was bleeding, I was busted up all over the place and I was terrified I was going to be knocked out cold. I shot a desperation takedown, he couldn't defend and i grabbed an armbar from mount. as soon as i extended that arm he started screaming. he was terrified i was going to break that arm and he was DONE. I didn't break the arm. I had absolutely no desire to do that, but it did prove to me that while it isn't necessarily typical, grappling can indeed be effective in a street fight.

Ironically people thought I was some kind of fighting wizard (this was around 96-97, before MMA had become so commercial and everyone and their cousin was training), despite the fact that that dude absolutely mauled me up until the final 10-15 seconds of the fight. But let me just say, I highly doubt I would have even attempted such a risky maneuver if I didn't have about 20 friends with me. lol

I also won a fight with a guillotine late in my freshman year.

I also got beat to a pulp by a wrestler... lmao. boy... that dude served me up something horrible. kid felt like he already had man strength, and we were about 14 lol.

 

[m22able7]

Her boxing is disgustingly bad and she showcased that vs Bethe. Don't get me wrong though, she looked slick at the open workouts two days prior but vs Bethe in the heat of the moment when Adrenaline is high she threw very primite punches. Looked like she packed all her power into them but technically speaking they were horrendous punches.


Edmund is not a boxing coach though. I do think someone of Rondas caliber under a proper boxing coach could pick it up very quickly and make vast improvements.

I agree her boxing is terrible, was just pointing it that is the only thing that improved from terrible to a little less terrible. The main point being her grappling and takedown abilities have not improved since she no long works on her judo and and does BJJ sometimes according to her. She practises boxing daily though.

 

[tombombadil]

That wasn't just any male MT guy tho (Adam Somchai), he was 14-1 at the time of the fight (the graphic in video is incorrect), and was the NZ national champ.

The video shows that the worlds best female fell short of an above average male in the discipline.

Frankly in MMA/Grappling in general I think the disparity would be even greater. Certainly when Giblert Melendez would grapple with Rousey it looked like he had to expend 0 effort to power out of whatever she tried. Mousasi was the same. I think someone like TJ Dillashaw would KO Rousey via jabs without Ronda ever touching him, he's that much faster. You would have to go to the bottom of regional shows to find a 135lb male that Ronda could have a competitive fight with.

Still shes an amazing talent and athlete for a 135lb woman, but any talk of beating men has been tried by better female athletes than Ronda and they all got smoked as far as I know.

I think she's better than the bottom of the regional shows (depending on region, that is!) just based on fighters I know who were/are top of our region, and by viewing her technique and speed vs my eyes' version of theirs. I think she's on their level, roughly.

Other than that small disagreement, your post is excellent.

 

[The XL]

I thought Rijker represented herself well in that fight. It could have gone worse. She was outclassed but no by so much that she looked like she didn't belong, landed a few decent shots of her own, took some big kicks and punches, including a big left hand and continued to press on, and went down in the pocket with a man like a boss. Hespect

 

[olimpicus]

I thought Rijker represented herself well in that fight. It could have gone worse. She was outclassed but no by so much that she looked like she didn't belong, landed a few decent shots of her own, took some big kicks and punches, including a big left hand and continued to press on, and went down in the pocket with a man like a boss. Hespect

Totally agree, she was outclassed but she fought with warrior spirit. Imagine if she would've fought the world champ...

 

[HR]

I thought Rijker represented herself well in that fight. It could have gone worse. She was outclassed but no by so much that she looked like she didn't belong, landed a few decent shots of her own, took some big kicks and punches, including a big left hand and continued to press on, and went down in the pocket with a man like a boss. Hespect

The thing about her is if you didnt know her gender for example you'd think it was a male fighter, her skills were on par and she moved so fluidly and was just such a great fighter. ultimately she did not have the jaw of a man, the speed of a man or the punching power of a man and thats what shines most to me as this man vs woman comparison.

 

[tombombadil]

The thing about her is if you didnt know her gender for example you'd think it was a male fighter, her skills were on par and she moved so fluidly and was just such a great fighter. ultimately she did not have the jaw of a man, the speed of a man or the punching power of a man and thats what shines most to me as this man vs woman comparison.

I'd add that once she got desperate and started winging more wildly, her punches started to look like 'girl punches'. I mean that, when her technique was sound, she looked like a man - when she lost her head I could really notice the difference in speed. When men lose their cool and fling wild punches (Garcia, Sanchez, etc) they still look fast and dangerous. I knew she was going to get hurt when she started throwing like that - wide and feeble (relatively)

Agreed that she did well, and showed great heart in taking the fight and bringing it like she did.

 

[HR]

I'd add that once she got desperate and started winging more wildly, her punches started to look like 'girl punches'. I mean that, when her technique was sound, she looked like a man - when she lost her head I could really notice the difference in speed. When men lose their cool and fling wild punches (Garcia, Sanchez, etc) they still look fast and dangerous. I knew she was going to get hurt when she started throwing like that - wide and feeble (relatively)

Agreed that she did well, and showed great heart in taking the fight and bringing it like she did.

Yeah agreed.


I think after this fight she had a few more kickboxing/MT fights and then started boxing. Never losing in the process at either. This was her only loss ever.

 

[tombombadil]

Yeah agreed.


I think after this fight she had a few more kickboxing/MT fights and then started boxing. Never losing in the process at either. This was her only loss ever.

Only going off what I've read, but she appears to be one of, if not THE, greatest female strikers ever.

It really does say a lot about male v female.

I'd like to reiterate that I admire her courage in accepting the fight, and also that of the promotion (probably not courageous, but....) for putting it on. There are far worse things in this world than two consenting, and well-matched adults fighting in a controlled environment - even if our social sensitivities say otherwise. For the record, I wouldn't want to see too many of these - but it is very interesting when a woman is THAT good to see how she'll do. Not just fighting, but any sport (Annika Sorenstam, for instance)

 

[Airdack]

That's fucked up that the male/female MT fight even happened. Who the fuck promoted this fight? What kind of fucking low life takes it?

Men should never be fighting women, in any circumstances. Doesn't matter if she's a world champ fighter and the guy is an ammy/low-level pro fighter. No one should be endorsing it. JWP shouldn't even be making a point to discredit Ronda on her statements by highlighting this video. It just gives the whole thing legitimacy.

It's not like Ronda is even calling guys out or saying she would dismantle guys at her weight class on her own accord. She keeps getting asked if she could beat Floyd or other male fighters, and like any fighter, she says she can beat anyone. She wouldn't be a champ if she said otherwise.

Why the fuck do people keep asking her this? Why is it such a huge topic and why would guys (especially established pros like JWP) even compare real M/F fights to disprove her? Of course men are going to beat women in 99% of combat situations. We are genetic fucking monsters by comparison. Men assaulting women wouldn't fly in any other scenario, so why entertain it in combat sports?

If a chick fighter carries on that she can beat up male fighters, do what we all do when a 6/10 thinks she's a 10/10, keep our mouths shut and maybe laugh about it when she's gone. No need to pull up practical situations of a guy KOing a girl and legitimizing women-bashing by advocating it.

Lol calm down JWP was just showing how a champion women MT fighter couldn't beat a mid level MT male. No one said he condoned the fight. People need to get a grip on reality.

Contrary to popular believe, Floyd does have good power but rather fight defensively to save his brain cells and not break his fragile hands again. Floyd would out footwork and popshot Ronda so bad its not even funny. Your talking one of the GOAT boxers ever whose style is based on speed and defense vs a women who was getting outstruck by meisha tate. She wouldn't even get a hand on him because he'd be circling her and hitting her non stop. Then comes the old saying that a black belt who gets hit in the head hard becomes a brown belt, ect.

People are acting like Floyd would be like James vs Randy, Floyd's style would absolutely wreck anybody who didn't have the speed and chin to actually get close enough clinch with him. The Octagon would be even easier for a master craftsman like Floyd to exploit with footwork.

For the record I fucking hate Floyd but come the fuck on people. This shit is obvious, Ronda's only chance would to try to clinch with one of the fastest boxers with excellent foot work and "possibly" the greatest defense of all time (RIP Nocche)

 

[torval]

yup Lucia Rijker was the best female muay thai fighter ever in history, much better record than Ronda.. she fought a can male fighter who had a losing record.. and yup you can imagine what happened, she got knocked out cold.

his record was 13 and 1. 1 loss out of 14 fights. can't you read? did you even watch the video?