John Danaher launches ‘Feet To Floor’ takedown instructional series.

Here is Osoto Gari for BJJ by an expert in a few easy steps:

Disrupt their base by making their leg bend when you hit it, move in to their space and drive their head backwards as your draw with the sleeve bringing your leg up once you have them off balance.

Nothing he's showing is harder to learn that what's in the other video but its more efficient, safer, more effective and setting up side or an armbar immediately. It shows the proper mechanics of doing the throw against a resisting partner even when bent over with the arse sticking out.



I don't mean to be a prick but this will work, the other one....might if you're very lucky.


Maybe I’m biased. I have a very sloppy uke waza, which is also very effective. I would never dare call it a true uke waza, I have too much respect for judo. And yet, it is one of my go-to takedowns I can often count on. So I can see Danaher’s point, that sloppy effectiveness can sometimes be much faster to learn than clean technique in some cases.

I like em both. I like clean takedowns which are truly refined, & sloppy ones that are effective. Whatever works.


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This thread has become too long-winded and convoluted for me to parse through. But it's interesting: On the old UG, some posters are of the mind that this instructional has exposed Danaher as a bit of a blowhard - presenting himself as an authority on something he isn't qualified to teach, relying on his rep as an intellectual to sell his content.

I hate to say it, but it feels that way! He definitely seems less credible with this stuff than with other aspects of his system. His verbose and pedantic teaching style only exacerbate the skepticism.

I understand he has some physical limitations. But this really does look like a terribly awkward osoto-gari, with no true unbalancing happening.



Oh my god.
That Osoto Gari is hilarious.
Did he just landed on right knee?

I thought the back of calf is supposed to chop the back of the calf of uke?
Then you remain standing and punch you opponent into the mats.

Really different from what I was taught.
 
Oh my god.
That Osoto Gari is hilarious.
Did he just landed on right knee?

I thought the back of calf is supposed to chop the back of the calf of uke?
Then you remain standing and punch you opponent into the mats.

Really different from what I was taught.

Omho its a thigh throw and you can injure your leg if you chop calf to calf.
 
I've been defending Danaher ITT but yeah that's the worst osoto gari I've ever seen. Travis Stevens posted a much better O soto video earlier this year:



This is probably the simplest, most digestible breakdown of o soto I've ever seen, addressing directional kuzushi with his belt quadrants.

I still think Danaher has a lot to offer in terms of strategy and analysis (and I agree with most of the points he makes in the vid outside of his technique demonstrations) but like @Chandler sama says above, it's baffling that Danaher would do this DVD without Travis Stevens on deck.



Short answer would be that Danaher wants to sell Danaher, the brand, which means headlining his material himself.

Changing the topic somewhat, i think there's one aspect of this discussion that often somewhat flies under the radar. That is, when looking at championship level competition in the ibjjf, you see for instance that some of the most common reversals by far are technical stand ups, such as with ankle picks, tree tops, or lapel feed signals.

Which is to say, even if you follow the idea that, given the structure of the scoring criteria, pulling guard first and putting yourself in the bottom position is a competitively optimal strategy - which i think is largely correct - in so far that you don't really need to focus on capability in neutral as such, it is still a fact that, even when starting from houses in different parts of the 'neighborhood', you so often can find you will end up driving through the same 'highways' on your way to the destination anyways.

Guard work in bjj is very well developed; defending passes, retaining guard, setting up grips, transitioning into your reversal - but it is at this last part where things can start getting... fuzzy. To generalize a broad trend of the field, relative to exponents of other traditions, i'd say 'finishing your food' is one of the weakest aspects dogging many bjj athlete's games, and you can see incidence of it even in high level guys, even in guys medaling at worlds. Like, almost all of them are very good at getting to their position for a reversal, but for many to some degree (and some to a great degree), crossing that 'last hundred yards' can end up being a bridge too far.

What you too often see is a lot of what i sometimes call 'dead fish posture'; their feet aren't alive, their knees are dragging across the ground, their kinetic chain isn't linked, they're flopping around like flubber, and so on. In the gi especially, you have situations where guys are pretty much relying on just pure grip strength to hang on, while trying to drag the other guy down like a sack of flour. Basically, the kinds of problems you might see a lot of jiu-jiteiros have in their neutral game, overlaps a great deal, are essentially the same problems they might have in finishing their reversals; and by that same token on the other side of the coin, ability of competitors to defend takedowns or reversals as well.

So in the end it's like a case where, even if the exact tactic is not of specifically great benefit to your sport, the capacities you'd need to succeed at it, are capacities you'd need for better success at other tactics in your sport, in any case.
 
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Moving forward.
We are finally moving to our dojo site.
150 square meters of mats.
I am contemplating to start from stand up for sparring.
Probably for the competition class first and see how it goes.
 
Moving forward.
We are finally moving to our dojo site.
150 square meters of mats.
I am contemplating to start from stand up for sparring.
Probably for the competition class first and see how it goes.
A suggestion:

Before your students get good enough in stand up and be able to breakfall properly, you might consider having them spar under Sumo rule set and develop not only takedown ability, but also spacial awareness, very important for large classes.

There are also many team grappling games, that could be used, rugby is one of them and you should be quite familiar with it :)
 
Maybe I’m biased. I have a very sloppy uke waza, which is also very effective. I would never dare call it a true uke waza, I have too much respect for judo. And yet, it is one of my go-to takedowns I can often count on. So I can see Danaher’s point, that sloppy effectiveness can sometimes be much faster to learn than clean technique in some cases.

I like em both. I like clean takedowns which are truly refined, & sloppy ones that are effective. Whatever works.


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I've hit Uke Waza a few times in competition and it always looked shite. Any video i saw looked like i randomly fell over and the other guy slowly bent down to check i was okay and he fell over too :)

I've seen a mate try to muscle Osoto sloppily from the kind of bad posture and entry Danaher shows, get driven backwards with both legs still wrapped and blow out his ACL as they landed awkwardly. Your takedown can look ugly as sin but if its mechanically sound you're laughing; the problem is when its not and you're forced to try compensate for that when the other guy is resisting.

I'm not a judo guy but have learnt all my standup from one; any throws i'm good at certainly don't look pretty but they do involved me doing the correct elements. The same with the few wrestling takedowns i'm good at, nobody will mistake me for John Smith or Jordan Burroughs but you can see i'm doing the proper things that make the technique work against resistance.
 
Short answer would be that Danaher wants to sell Danaher, the brand, which means headlining his material himself.

Agreed.

Changing the topic somewhat, i think there's one aspect of this discussion that often somewhat flies under the radar. That is, when looking at championship level competition in the ibjjf, you see that some of the most common reversals by far are technical stand ups of various stripes for instance, such as with ankle picks, tree tops, or lapel feed signals.

Which is to say, even if you follow the idea that, given the structure of the scoring criteria, pulling guard first and putting yourself in the bottom position is a competitively optimal strategy - which i think is largely correct - in so far that you don't really need to focus on capability in neutral as such, it is still a fact that, even when starting from houses in different parts of the 'neighborhood', you so often can find you will end up driving through the same 'highways' on your way to the destination anyways.

Guard work in bjj is very well developed; defending passes, retaining guard, setting up grips, transitioning into your reversal - but it is at this last part where things can start getting... fuzzy. To generalize a broad trend of the field, relative to exponents of other traditions, i'd say 'finishing your food' is one of the weakest aspects dogging many bjj athlete's games, and you can see incidence of it even in high level guys, even in guys medaling at worlds. Like, almost all of them are very good at getting to their position for a reversal, but for many to some degree (and some to a great degree), crossing that 'last hundred yards' can end up being a bridge too far.

What you too often see is a lot of what i sometimes call 'dead fish posture'; their feet aren't alive, their knees are dragging across the ground, their kinetic chain isn't linked, they're flopping around like flubber, and so on. In the gi especially, you have situations where guys are pretty much relying on just pure grip strength to hang on, while trying to drag the other guy down like dead weight. Basically, the kinds of problems you might see a lot of jiu-jiteiros have in their neutral game, overlaps a great deal, are essentially the same problems they might have in finishing their reversals; and by that same token on the other side of the coin, ability of competitors to defend takedowns or reversals as well.

So in the end it's like a case where, even if the exact tactic is not of specifically great benefit to your sport, the capacities you'd need to succeed at it, are capacities you'd need for better success at other tactics in your sport, in any case.

I think the missing element you're describing is what many people ambiguously associate with "wrestling." The inclination and aptitude to force position on the feet and on the ground with proper application of technique combined with strength and explosion. Competitive judoka have it by necessity because Judo scoring is more similar to wrestling than BJJ. Some BJJ guys have it but it's possible to be good or even elite without it.
 
Am I the only person who is a little reluctant to learn takedowns from a jiu jitsu guy, instead of a wrestler or judoka? Not to mention someone who has zero takedown competition experience? I feel like you would get way more from someone like Cary Kolat?

Also learning takedowns for “BJJ-only” sounds like learning BJJ for MMA only...so much is gained from the process of learning takedowns for the sake of takedowns, as a purist, ie learning boxing from a boxer, and tying it all together GSP-style.

Yes. Especially from someone like Danaher who probably never took down a resisting opponent. I can't take Danaher serious for multiple reasons.
 
There are two schools of thought on this. One is as you say: Learn takedowns from those who excel in sports that are focused on takedowns.

But there is another school of thought that takedowns for BJJ and submission wrestling should be learned specific to the sport.

There are a lot of pure wrestler and pure judoka habits that leave you vulnerable under jiu-jitsu rules.

Danaher is analytical, methodical, and systematic. The argument is that it is better to have the takedown game studied and laid out by a guy like him rather than learning takedowns from a different sport and just hoping for the best.

But he has videos out there stating he doesn't allow students to start rolling standing... How the heck do you get good at takedowns then ?
 
But he has videos out there stating he doesn't allow students to start rolling standing... How the heck do you get good at takedowns then ?
Seriously??

That makes the whole idea of this dvd set even dumber :-D
 
But he has videos out there stating he doesn't allow students to start rolling standing... How the heck do you get good at takedowns then ?
Strange.
Because my friend trained at the blue basement and people freaking go for takedown all the time in a crowded space of other rolling on the mats which is super dangerous.
 
Strange.
Because my friend trained at the blue basement and people freaking go for takedown all the time in a crowded space of other rolling on the mats which is super dangerous.

Maybe you're right. I believe your friend if he actually trained there.
 
Strange.
Because my friend trained at the blue basement and people freaking go for takedown all the time in a crowded space of other rolling on the mats which is super dangerous.

That's not true. He doesn't allow certain takedowns but people start standing.
Source: trained there

Genuinely curious, which classes were going full takedowns? My only experience was doing a trial no gi class there about 10 years ago. It was all levels and I'm 95% sure Murilo Bustamante was across the room rolling just like everyone else. I remember for sure it was starting from knees because I had two rolls with a tiny guy who couldn't have been more than 125 lbs (I was 160 at the time) who kept taking my back and RNCing me and I remember wishing we could start from feet so I could try to bounce him off the ceiling with a hane goshi into side control (he probably still would have taken my back but I wanted the chance to try it lol).

Was never a regular there but I got the impression their standard gi "blue belt program" and "purple belt program" as well as no gi was starting from knees, with only the advanced classes (purple+) and obviously competition team workouts including more TDs. Please correct if that's mistaken.
 
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Yes. Especially from someone like Danaher who probably never took down a resisting opponent. I can't take Danaher serious for multiple reasons.
He’s never competed but he bounced for years and got in tons of scraps , he’s talked bout it . So I’m sure he’s taken down a resisting opponent . He mentioned how much easier it was after starting bjj .
 
I think philosophy and establishing criteria for effectiveness are great ideas. But the thinker in this case needs to have real experience/expertise to fully realize the concepts.

Some of the criteria like back exposure sounds really good. In fact, if you perform a technique poorly then this is a big risk, but a properly executed technique (meaning, kuzushi/offbalancing, penetration, explosiveness) doesn't have teh same level of risk as he demos. Can you take someone's back during a throw in which you expose your back? Sure, if I'm doing the technique in slow motion, or lacking any of the above characteristics of a good throw, but realistically someone would have to react like the Flash to be able to simply take your back. This may not be a demo of how to Osoto, but don't tell my why something sucks when you're performing in a sucky fashion.

I like the concepts involved, but poor execution of any technique makes tori vulnerable. Not all throws in Judo are good for BJJ, or Wrestling, for sure.
 
As for the rest of Danaher's criteria, Im speechless.

He assumes something (incorrect) and expects this to be a rule.

An example:
In his opinion every double leg must be done with the head on the outside, putting yourself into guillotine.
How about headbutt opponent's sternum?

As for the weight difference, well no shit!
It doesnt take a genius to know that there are strategies vs heavier opponents.

How are those even in a discussion?

Are people here so clueless about takedowns?

If you did a blast double with your head in their chest, couldn't they still guillotine you with a figure four guillotine?
 
He’s never competed but he bounced for years and got in tons of scraps , he’s talked bout it . So I’m sure he’s taken down a resisting opponent . He mentioned how much easier it was after starting bjj .

Sure he did.
 
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