John Danaher launches ‘Feet To Floor’ takedown instructional series.

[Peteyandjia]

 

[Peteyandjia]

(do yourself a favor & at least click play for the first 10 seconds)

 

[kpoz12]

"First volume"= $$$

 

[kpoz12]

I am amazed he calls them so plainly "Ankle Pick" and "Collar Drag" and not "Su-zi-waza nekomi origmani" and "Pikachu-okami-washi"

 

[ItsArun]

Am I the only person who is a little reluctant to learn takedowns from a jiu jitsu guy, instead of a wrestler or judoka? Not to mention someone who has zero takedown competition experience? I feel like you would get way more from someone like Cary Kolat?

Also learning takedowns for “BJJ-only” sounds like learning BJJ for MMA only...so much is gained from the process of learning takedowns for the sake of takedowns, as a purist, ie learning boxing from a boxer, and tying it all together GSP-style.

 

[yetanother]

With amount of dvds from elite level judo and wrestling dvds learning takedowns from a nogi bjj guy seems super weird.

 

[shunyata]

Danaher loves that Tsesae Tsurikomi Ashi and ankle picks.

 

[Cool RoboCop Gun]

Am I the only person who is a little reluctant to learn takedowns from a jiu jitsu guy, instead of a wrestler or judoka? Not to mention someone who has zero takedown competition experience? I feel like you would get way more from someone like Cary Kolat?

Also learning takedowns for “BJJ-only” sounds like learning BJJ for MMA only...so much is gained from the process of learning takedowns for the sake of takedowns, as a purist, ie learning boxing from a boxer, and tying it all together GSP-style.

There are two schools of thought on this. One is as you say: Learn takedowns from those who excel in sports that are focused on takedowns.

But there is another school of thought that takedowns for BJJ and submission wrestling should be learned specific to the sport.

There are a lot of pure wrestler and pure judoka habits that leave you vulnerable under jiu-jitsu rules.

Danaher is analytical, methodical, and systematic. The argument is that it is better to have the takedown game studied and laid out by a guy like him rather than learning takedowns from a different sport and just hoping for the best.

 

[dimmyfinster]

(do yourself a favor & at least click play for the first 10 seconds)

I wasn't going to am glad I did thanks

 

[EndlessCritic]

Am I the only person who is a little reluctant to learn takedowns from a jiu jitsu guy, instead of a wrestler or judoka? Not to mention someone who has zero takedown competition experience? I feel like you would get way more from someone like Cary Kolat?

Also learning takedowns for “BJJ-only” sounds like learning BJJ for MMA only...so much is gained from the process of learning takedowns for the sake of takedowns, as a purist, ie learning boxing from a boxer, and tying it all together GSP-style.

Not necessarily.

The ankle pick Danaher demonstrates is illegal in Judo, yet highly effective in BJJ.

The ankle pick Danaher demonstrates is legal in wrestling, but far less effective without the gi.

 

[Chandler sama]

Am I the only person who is a little reluctant to learn takedowns from a jiu jitsu guy, instead of a wrestler or judoka? Not to mention someone who has zero takedown competition experience? I feel like you would get way more from someone like Cary Kolat?

Also learning takedowns for “BJJ-only” sounds like learning BJJ for MMA only...so much is gained from the process of learning takedowns for the sake of takedowns, as a purist, ie learning boxing from a boxer, and tying it all together GSP-style.

I feel the same way, although I admire the fact that he is trying to improve takedowns in Bjj. The concepts he talks about in the video are sound and I understand his reasoning, however I have to wonder how well it will work. When I've seen people try the same thing the other way around IMO it hasn't been that effective.

 

[Zankou]

Am I the only person who is a little reluctant to learn takedowns from a jiu jitsu guy, instead of a wrestler or judoka? Not to mention someone who has zero takedown competition experience? I feel like you would get way more from someone like Cary Kolat?

Also learning takedowns for “BJJ-only” sounds like learning BJJ for MMA only...so much is gained from the process of learning takedowns for the sake of takedowns, as a purist, ie learning boxing from a boxer, and tying it all together GSP-style.

It’s a solid point, but if you aren’t going to be training pure takedown arts for a long time, there’s no shame in learning the basic efficient BJJ type takedowns.

Particularly the ankle pick and collar drag, which he rightly points out are stupidly easy to learn and yet outrageously effective at all levels. You should be doing them from guard constantly anyways, so it’s no stretch to do them from the feet as well.

Love the ashi-pikachu bastardized Japanese alternative terminology. Danaher really broke form here by not going after that.

 

[kpoz12]

A lot of you guys are missing the entire point: it's not "Best Takedowns and Throws"; it's "Best FOR BJJ".

John is actually pretty "to the point" in the OP video, and he's very clear on why strictly learning Wrestling or Judo takedowns aren't necessarily the best idea for BJJ based on Rulesets, prohibitive techniques, and exposure to submissions.

Just the same way some people were crapping on Gary Tonon's "Shoot To Thrill"- completely missing that it's specifically geared for BJJ, and not "here's the best Judo moves; here's some great wrestling".
Specifically with Gary's DVD, he was covering things like "Failed Single Leg to Ashi Garami and Heelhook", you aren't going to learn that from Kolat or any other Pure Wrestling instructional.

 

[Chandler sama]

I genuinely hope that this gets more people interested in takedowns and John actually improves takedowns in BJJ the way he did leglocks, but I'm still a bit skeptical. However I think he has the influence now to perhaps tip the scales and make more people practice throws.

For those that find Danaher's DVDs too expensive/boring, I just saw there are a few other DVDs recently released on the same topic. All of them are by high level Judoka with black belts in BJJ.

https://bjjfanatics.com/collections/new-releases/products/low-risk-judo-throws-for-bjj
https://bjjfanatics.com/collections...afe-sacrifice-throws-for-bjj-by-justin-flores
https://bjjfanatics.com/products/si...-bjj-digital-only-by-matt-daquino?s=recomatic

 

[CFGroup]

Denahar's has the kind of attention to detail I love and even as a staunch Freestyle-with leg attacks- Judo 85/15% Tachi/Ne Waza guy, I'll always give his clips a watch.

Good stuff.

 

[ChickenBrother]

Am I the only person who is a little reluctant to learn takedowns from a jiu jitsu guy, instead of a wrestler or judoka? Not to mention someone who has zero takedown competition experience? I feel like you would get way more from someone like Cary Kolat?

Also learning takedowns for “BJJ-only” sounds like learning BJJ for MMA only...so much is gained from the process of learning takedowns for the sake of takedowns, as a purist, ie learning boxing from a boxer, and tying it all together GSP-style.

I agree with your sentiment but we should distinguish between "strategic application" and "technical refinement." IMO it doesn't get any better than Danaher for the former for anything that touches BJJ, nor the latter for BJJ groundwork - I think everything he says in the vid is spot on. But I'm sure there are many people technically better at the TDs he's doing.

IMO drilling these TDs only against regular BJJ guys (who don't excel at TD defense) will have a relatively low ceiling for technique refinement. It would be like relying on Judo training (at a club that includes some newaza) to get good at subs. If you're only rolling with Judo guys, your ceiling would be around BJJ blue equivalent MAYBE purple if you have access to high level guys. But a wrestler or Judoka is going to be much better than most BJJ guys at reacting, defending and countering any TD on the feet.

Until TDs become more mainstream in BJJ training (most guys at my BJJ gym are terrible), best way to get polished at gi TDs is cross-training with Judo guys. Just like if you want to get polished at gi subs, you need to train BJJ.

 

[Zankou]

That Matt d’aquino set looks great.

 

[EndlessCritic]

It would be like relying on Judo training (at a club that includes some newaza) to get good at subs.

Though ironically because of the judo ruleset judokas tend to be very good at top turtle subs compared to BJJ players.

 

[Daz2300]

Matt D'Aquino has some good BJJ applicable stuff out there already aside from the set linked above especially around leg grabs and Kouchi Makikomi.

I'm a bit torn on this one, i can seem the appeal of somebody applying this type of structured breakdown to takedowns for BJJ but just don't think Danaher is the right person. The issue i have with this type of stuff is it's either Judo/Wrestling guys teaching stuff out of context with a token nod to the different ruleset or BJJ guys without takedown skills teaching techniques that will fail badly against resisting opponents (or worse get you hurt) because they haven't got the practical skill to apply it.

My thoughts are the approach is backwards to an extent. I have a few sequences i teach people to hit a mix of takedowns and guard pulls to immediate sweeps or subs off specific grips and i teach them grip fighting techniques to get those grips while defending takedowns and guard pulls. I'm not trying to do a takedown (for BJJ) but like in Judo i'm trying to win the grip fight to get dominant grips to get off my practised techniques while you get nothing going. They may be takedowns, they may be guard pulls but ideally they give me an option for both that leads directly in to a submission or at least something like a pass, Side Control or the back rather than 'here is how to do a version of Tai Otoshi so somebody can't jump on your back..." etc.

The Takedown isn't the focus, it's more like saying you're talking about a guard in the BJJ context. I put my left hand here, i hold this with my right hand and my legs do this and this so i have a logical progression to this sweep, that sweep, the triangle, the armbar etc. Call it a guard, call it a takedown but the idea is it leads you to a clear set of likely sweeps, subs or passes you have drilled and you're directing the flow to through your grips.

Teach the Collar Drag but teach how to get and defend that grip, how to shut them down and how to use it to get a single, their back or pull in to a specific guard. Just another example if i know this ankle lock is available then i can learn grip fighting to set up what is essentially a throw/guard pull/sub entry/oppurtunity to sweep and come up based on whatever happens as we go down:



That is the methodology people should be working to i think for BJJ not the idea of 'this is a BJJ takedown...we've copied from Judo or Wrestling but changed a little". I'm pretty sure i had a good discussion in the past on the link between ankle picks, singles and other leg-based takedowns in to leg locks as a future area for growth here with a few people but there is certainly a lot more you could teach people in a more systemic fashion such as takedowns that set up your Long Step Pass, Saddle Entry etc. I think if you teach people a clear sequence from grip fighting through takedown or guard pull depending on the result to sweep, pass or sub you're using a framework people are familiar and comfortable with from learning guards which are essentially the same thing. Teach them a throw, a double leg or whatever in isolation and even if you're saying things like "Don't stick your head here when you shoot!" you're not giving people the skills they actually need.

I've had a few beers though so am likely talking shite and this is rambling nonsense

 

[maximus__]

(do yourself a favor & at least click play for the first 10 seconds)

Hahaha great call.