Joe Rogan: UFC Throws Fighters to the Wolves

[ReadWrite]

Career Destruction by Dana White

Joe Rogan recently had former boxing champion Andre Ward as a guest in his podcast, and it’s where the two discussed the difference between the sweet science and mixed martial arts. According to Rogan, one of the things that boxing does well and MMA doesn’t, is with properly handling prospects and building up big fights. He says that with UFC fighters not getting much of a choice in matchmaking and their career paths, a lot of promising prospects aren’t properly handled.

“(In boxing) managers dictate who the fighters fight, and they do build their fighters up correctly. One of the things that bothers me about MMA, is I think there’s some really good young fighters that get ruined,” Rogan said. They get thrown to the wolves too quickly, they wind up getting their confidence shattered, they get knocked out when they shouldn’t be, they’re fighting a caliber of fighter they’re not prepared for.

“There’s always the argument for a guy like Jon Jones, youngest ever UFC champion,” Rogan said. “For every Jon Jones, there’s a guy who is coming up that maybe could have been a world champion, but didn’t get managed correctly. The UFC doesn’t give you options. They say: ‘Hey, you want to fight Kamaru Usman? Okay, here’s your fight. This is it.’

“It’s a trade off right?” Ward asks. “Fans get the big fights, but in the wake of how many careers? The fans get the big fights, but I don’t think we necessarily see the highest caliber of fighter fight the highest caliber of fighter, with the best-case scenario at all times. Do you know what I’m saying? I don’t think we get to see the most out of some of these guys.

“If there was a ton of different promoters around, and you weren’t locked into any specific organization like the UFC has, I think you can see more managers saying, ‘Hey, man, you’re not ready for Robbie Lawler, you’re not ready for this guy. We’re going to take this fight on a regional level. We’re going to build you up and get you to 15, 16-0, then we’re going to start to challenge some top 10 contenders.’

“This way, you will have seen all the looks. You’ll have seen a great wrestler, a great striker. You’ve fought a Muay Thai champion, you’ve fought a jiujitsu guy, you know how to handle all these different scenarios.”

. . .

https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2019/9/...ospects-cant-build-up-fighters-like-in-boxing

 

[13 others]

UFC has too small of a roster to build up fighters in the way they're talking about. They'd have to have cross promotion fights to actually do something like that. UFC forces contenders to fight.. for the most part. They use their leverage to make the big fights that UFC has to offer. You can have several champions in boxing never fighting each other. Its ridiculous. If managers want to build their prospects then they need to avoid signing with the UFC so early. But alot of them are fighting for $. They're prize fighters. Theres no $ for the average MMA prospect outside of UFC.

 

[Haj01]

Just pictured Joe in a fear factor type setting pushing fighters into a pit with actual wolves. "Don't be a pussy man"

"Oooooh! And the wolf rips his dick off chimpanzee style"

 

[wufabufa]

I really hope they end up giving Greg Hardy a break. They just shoved him in the octagon with a bunch of world beaters.

 

[Mahkor]

So he wants more can crushing? FOH with that shit, most of the champions in the UFC are young guys, dudes like Till are just not talented enough to reach that level.

 

[VIPERdude]

Career Destruction by Dana White

Joe Rogan recently had former boxing champion Andre Ward as a guest in his podcast, and it’s where the two discussed the difference between the sweet science and mixed martial arts. According to Rogan, one of the things that boxing does well and MMA doesn’t, is with properly handling prospects and building up big fights. He says that with UFC fighters not getting much of a choice in matchmaking and their career paths, a lot of promising prospects aren’t properly handled.

“(In boxing) managers dictate who the fighters fight, and they do build their fighters up correctly. One of the things that bothers me about MMA, is I think there’s some really good young fighters that get ruined,” Rogan said. They get thrown to the wolves too quickly, they wind up getting their confidence shattered, they get knocked out when they shouldn’t be, they’re fighting a caliber of fighter they’re not prepared for.

“There’s always the argument for a guy like Jon Jones, youngest ever UFC champion,” Rogan said. “For every Jon Jones, there’s a guy who is coming up that maybe could have been a world champion, but didn’t get managed correctly. The UFC doesn’t give you options. They say: ‘Hey, you want to fight Kamaru Usman? Okay, here’s your fight. This is it.’

“It’s a trade off right?” Ward asks. “Fans get the big fights, but in the wake of how many careers? The fans get the big fights, but I don’t think we necessarily see the highest caliber of fighter fight the highest caliber of fighter, with the best-case scenario at all times. Do you know what I’m saying? I don’t think we get to see the most out of some of these guys.

“If there was a ton of different promoters around, and you weren’t locked into any specific organization like the UFC has, I think you can see more managers saying, ‘Hey, man, you’re not ready for Robbie Lawler, you’re not ready for this guy. We’re going to take this fight on a regional level. We’re going to build you up and get you to 15, 16-0, then we’re going to start to challenge some top 10 contenders.’

“This way, you will have seen all the looks. You’ll have seen a great wrestler, a great striker. You’ve fought a Muay Thai champion, you’ve fought a jiujitsu guy, you know how to handle all these different scenarios.”

. . .

https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2019/9/...ospects-cant-build-up-fighters-like-in-boxing

I agree. Thats why Darren Till crashed and burned after his push due to one dominate performance against Cowboy Cerrone.

People give me hell! when I say pushing Tatiana Suarez to get the next championship title shot is foolish.
Why? Because she hasnt beaten anybody of significance. People say CARLA ESPARZA WAS A FORMER SW champion. Yes, and she lost badly to a striker because she could not strike. Tatiana has very little striking, her cardio we seen slows, AND her takedowns can be stuffed. Nina stopped TD attempts in round 3.

Putting this into more perspective. Carla Esparza called for UFC to create a 105 pound atomweight division in 2018. You know why that is? She is one of the smallest SW's in the division and had to gain muscle to make it into the TUF house...

Tatiana Suarez before entering the UFC wanted to compete at 125 pounds but the division didnt exist. She is a VERY big SW.
Tatiana an Olympic level wrestler controlling and beating up Carla Esparza, a good wrestler in college, the former TUF champion who couldnt even take down Joanna over multiple attempts in her first title defense when Joanna was just learning how to defend against a wrestlers take down... (you can find Joanna saying such on "UFC Connected")

Nina Ansaroff was avoiding Tatianas takedowns in the 3rd round while tagging her in the grill. I feel Joanna beats the piss out of Suarez. That being said I think UFC DOES NEED TO PAD RECORDS in order to build stars. They made Khabib a killer by gradually showing he was a killer fight by fight. Now look where he is.

 

[EndlessCritic]

Rogan is a moron.

Protecting fighters is everything wrong with boxing.

The fact that prospects are matched against each other early in their careers is everything right about the UFC.

Look at a guy like Robert Whittaker. He didn't get protected, or built up. He just fought monster after monster and defeated them all.

There should be no favoritism. Just contenders against contenders.

 

[hillelslovak87]

KOTC

 

[Local Plata]

If "Building up fighters correctly" is having them fight absolute nobodies for 10 years to amass a nice sounding undefeated record ... then Ok.

 

[J0N0]

In boxing they're fighting low calibre opposition like 5,6,7 times a year on the way up though.

If they feed you scrubs in mma and you're fighting twice a year then 1. no fan has the patience for that and 2. they'd be retired before they ever got near a top 10 fight.

 

[EndlessCritic]

If "Building up fighters correctly" is having them fight absolute nobodies for 10 years to amass a nice sounding undefeated record ... then Ok.

Ding ding ding.

Look at a guy like Terence Crawford right now in boxing. He's considered one of the best in the world p4p, yet still hasn't had a marquee fight. Loma continues to fight guys he completely outmatches. It's insanity.

Christ, I think the only truly great boxing match in 2019 so far has been Mikey Garcia/Errol Spence. (Alvarez/Jacobs is close).

 

[ReadWrite]

It's interesting that Rogan is saying this now, because White is getting ready to start Zuffa Boxing in a month or two, and his game plan to change boxing is to use the UFC matchmaking blueprint.

Ironically, what seems to have got Rogan thinking about the subject, though, was the destruction of Sage Northcutt by Cosmo Alexandre (outside the UFC).

 

[BJpencil]

Career Destruction by Dana White

Joe Rogan recently had former boxing champion Andre Ward as a guest in his podcast, and it’s where the two discussed the difference between the sweet science and mixed martial arts. According to Rogan, one of the things that boxing does well and MMA doesn’t, is with properly handling prospects and building up big fights. He says that with UFC fighters not getting much of a choice in matchmaking and their career paths, a lot of promising prospects aren’t properly handled.

“(In boxing) managers dictate who the fighters fight, and they do build their fighters up correctly. One of the things that bothers me about MMA, is I think there’s some really good young fighters that get ruined,” Rogan said. They get thrown to the wolves too quickly, they wind up getting their confidence shattered, they get knocked out when they shouldn’t be, they’re fighting a caliber of fighter they’re not prepared for.

“There’s always the argument for a guy like Jon Jones, youngest ever UFC champion,” Rogan said. “For every Jon Jones, there’s a guy who is coming up that maybe could have been a world champion, but didn’t get managed correctly. The UFC doesn’t give you options. They say: ‘Hey, you want to fight Kamaru Usman? Okay, here’s your fight. This is it.’

“It’s a trade off right?” Ward asks. “Fans get the big fights, but in the wake of how many careers? The fans get the big fights, but I don’t think we necessarily see the highest caliber of fighter fight the highest caliber of fighter, with the best-case scenario at all times. Do you know what I’m saying? I don’t think we get to see the most out of some of these guys.

“If there was a ton of different promoters around, and you weren’t locked into any specific organization like the UFC has, I think you can see more managers saying, ‘Hey, man, you’re not ready for Robbie Lawler, you’re not ready for this guy. We’re going to take this fight on a regional level. We’re going to build you up and get you to 15, 16-0, then we’re going to start to challenge some top 10 contenders.’

“This way, you will have seen all the looks. You’ll have seen a great wrestler, a great striker. You’ve fought a Muay Thai champion, you’ve fought a jiujitsu guy, you know how to handle all these different scenarios.”

. . .

https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2019/9/...ospects-cant-build-up-fighters-like-in-boxing

Boxing protects their fighters too much so the public never gets to see great fights. Manny and Floyd never fought in their prime because their promoters wanted to cash easy paychecks. So boxing has the problem in the other direction. Give me UFC where we see great fights and some careers are destroyed (Till etc..) rather than boxing where they don't put the best versus the best. They just fight creampuffs and pad the records. One vote here for the just bleed Gods.

 

[Th3Sav4ge]

I agree. Thats why Darren Till crashed and burned after his push due to one dominate performance against Cowboy Cerrone.

People give me hell! when I say pushing Tatiana Suarez to get the next championship title shot is foolish.
Why? Because she hasnt beaten anybody of significance. People say CARLA ESPARZA WAS A FORMER SW champion. Yes, and she lost badly to a striker because she could not strike. Tatiana has very little striking, her cardio we seen slows, AND her takedowns can be stuffed. Nina stopped TD attempts in round 3.

Putting this into more perspective. Carla Esparza called for UFC to create a 105 pound atomweight division in 2018. You know why that is? She is one of the smallest SW's in the division and had to gain muscle to make it into the TUF house...

Tatiana Suarez before entering the UFC wanted to compete at 125 pounds but the division didnt exist. She is a VERY big SW.
Tatiana an Olympic level wrestler controlling and beating up Carla Esparza, a good wrestler in college, the former TUF champion who couldnt even take down Joanna over multiple attempts in her first title defense when Joanna was just learning how to defend against a wrestlers take down... (you can find Joanna saying such on "UFC Connected")

Nina Ansaroff was avoiding Tatianas takedowns in the 3rd round while tagging her in the grill. I feel Joanna beats the piss out of Suarez. That being said I think UFC DOES NEED TO PAD RECORDS in order to build stars. They made Khabib a killer by gradually showing he was a killer fight by fight. Now look where he is.

not a bad post my guy. i think suarez and her camp thought nina was gonna be an easy fight. Nina has been slowly improving but i dont think anyone expected her to look that good against tatiana. i remember a fight or 2 ago i was thinking "she dosnt look like she trains with nunes"

some people do get rushed. and i for one dont really think till got rushed. he got his title fight because colby declined. and masvidal is probably who he should have fought after tyron. i like jorges as much as the next person but everyones gonna pretend masvidal was "a huge step up". from who, wonderboy and tyron?


its hard to balance things out. i think sage got fed to the wolves in the barabena fight. he should still be fighting guys the record of gall. instead he is "failing" up the ladder like akiyama and his manager dont give a flying fuck. Sage had no business against comso alexander. a guy with an extensive mhuy thai record 69-19. as well as an 8-1 mma record. only losing his debut. i know sages record was 11-2, but hes clearly green. and way undersized against cosmo. how anyone on his team can watch his losses and his wins and think he had a snowballs chance against cosmo is unbelieveable

 

[Deceasedxo]

UFC has too small of a roster to build up fighters in the way they're talking about. They'd have to have cross promotion fights to actually do something like that. UFC forces contenders to fight.. for the most part. They use their leverage to make the big fights that UFC has to offer. You can have several champions in boxing never fighting each other. Its ridiculous. If managers want to build their prospects then they need to avoid signing with the UFC so early. But alot of them are fighting for $. They're prize fighters. Theres no $ for the average MMA prospect outside of UFC.

UFC has literally 100s of fighters at their disposal. We see it all the time with the 'watered down' fight night cards etc. They need to match these journeymen up with prospects for longer, in order to build the prospect up.

 

[Fluffernutter]

But, Aaron Pico isn't in the uFC

 

[Steve-French]

If "Building up fighters correctly" is having them fight absolute nobodies for 10 years to amass a nice sounding undefeated record ... then Ok.

Spot on! I like to watch boxing as well as MMA, but more times than not the top guys in boxing are always pussy footing around fighting each other, because L's mean a lot more. I'll take the UFC's model any day of the week. The L's don't count as much and we get to see all of the top guys fight each other.

 

[Woodstock99]

It doesn't fucking help when they are getting their education on MMA fighters from guys like Joe Rogan.....

he is one of the most ridiculous, retarded analysts I've ever had to listen to, all hyperbole and no substance.

 

[Th3Sav4ge]

I don't like boxing and their business model, so nah. MMA isn't run perfectly by anyone, but to look at boxing for any tips seems misguided.

you dont want 2-3 guys 40-0 in the same division?

 

[VIPERdude]

not a bad post my guy. i think suarez and her camp thought nina was gonna be an easy fight. Nina has been slowly improving but i dont think anyone expected her to look that good against tatiana. i remember a fight or 2 ago i was thinking "she dosnt look like she trains with nunes"

some people do get rushed. and i for one dont really think till got rushed. he got his title fight because colby declined. and masvidal is probably who he should have fought after tyron. i like jorges as much as the next person but everyones gonna pretend masvidal was "a huge step up". from who, wonderboy and tyron?


its hard to balance things out. i think sage got fed to the wolves in the barabena fight. he should still be fighting guys the record of gall. instead he is "failing" up the ladder like akiyama and his manager dont give a flying fuck. Sage had no business against comso alexander. a guy with an extensive mhuy thai record 69-19. as well as an 8-1 mma record. only losing his debut. i know sages record was 11-2, but hes clearly green. and way undersized against cosmo. how anyone on his team can watch his losses and his wins and think he had a snowballs chance against cosmo is unbelieveable

I am conflicted between whether ONE really thought Sage would be able to truly hang with Cosmo, or if One wants to show that UFC fighters arent the best in the world. They do keep throwing Mighty Mouse wolves but he is that good and still can beat anybody. Then you have Eddies Alvarez who lost his debut against a guy who was no joke (I admit I dont know who he fought just know he was a good fighter) and then Eddie almost got finished against Eduard Folayang recently but was able to make a comeback and win. So again, I cant tell if One is really trying to show UFC fighters are superior or if ONE fighters are the best in the world. Or maybe they dont care either way which should be the case.