Joe Rogan & Ben Askren explain the solution to all weight cutting problems

[Katsumi Yamada]

From the latest episode of Joe's MMA show.

Ben Askren explains the weigh in system used in ONE Championship (where Askren fought the later part of his career) and how it has successfully eliminated weight cutting, and the associated health risks.

Time-stamped @1:34:54




For those who aren't able to watch the video; Ben explains the weigh in system at ONE which I summarised in the following spoiler

Spoiler

whereby
fighters take a specific gravity urine test, which is immediately weighed, showing whether or not the fighter is hydrated within seconds.

If the fighter is hydrated, he can proceed to step on the scales and weigh in.

If the fighter is not hydrated, he must drink water until he can produce a satisfactory sample and then weigh in.
If he is overweight, he gets fined.
Note that you can be ON WEIGHT, but if you are not hydrated you can't officially weigh in at all.
They can weigh in at any point in the 2 days leading up to the fight.

Both guys agreed that this is the solution for eliminating the dangerous and pointless process of weight cutting.

So what do you guys think? Why aren't UFC implementing this?

The only downside would be that many (the majority) of the fighters would have to change division causing some casual fans to get a bit confused. However they'd still be competing against most of the same guys as they are with the current system.

It seems like various athletic commission are coming up with convoluted ways of mitigating the problems and ignoring the most obvious and easiest solution.

 

[wartor]

What the hell is "gravity urine"? Unification theory or some new Machida drink?

 

[4daLuLZ]

From the latest episode of Joe's MMA show.

Ben Askren explains the weigh in system used in ONE Championship (where Askren fought the later part of his career) and how it has successfully eliminated weight cutting, and the associated health risks.

Time-stamped @1:34:54




For those who aren't able to watch the video; Ben explains the weigh in system at ONE which I summarised in the following spoiler

Spoiler

whereby
fighters take a specific gravity urine test, which is immediately weighed, showing whether or not the fighter is hydrated within seconds.

If the fighter is hydrated, he can proceed to step on the scales and weigh in.

If the fighter is not hydrated, he must drink water until he can produce a satisfactory sample and then weigh in.
If he is overweight, he gets fined.
Note that you can be ON WEIGHT, but if you are not hydrated you can't officially weigh in at all.
They can weigh in at any point in the 2 days leading up to the fight.

Both guys agreed that this is the solution for eliminating the dangerous and pointless process of weight cutting.

So what do you guys think? Why aren't UFC implementing this?

The only downside would be that many (the majority) of the fighters would have to change division causing some casual fans to get a bit confused. However they'd still be competing against most of the same guys as they are with the current system.

It seems like various athletic commission are coming up with convoluted ways of mitigating the problems and ignoring the most obvious and easiest solution.

 

[Katsumi Yamada]

What the hell is "gravity urine"? Unification theory or some new Machida drink?

Specific gravity is a measure of the density of a liquid compared to water.

Water has a specific gravity of 1.000.
In order to be sufficiently hydrated to weigh in, the fighters must have specific gravity between 1.000 and 1.025.

(The more watery your piss , the more hydrated you are...makes sense right?)

In order to determine the specific gravity you weigh a fixed amount of the liquid.

 

[AminoAcid]

I'm on board. However, they would have to adjust the weights a bit.. weighing in at an exact specific weight , e.g 'exactly' 185, without hydrating yourself (even a little) can be tedious.


Therefore, if they were to go ahead and implement a system like this, they should make a range for which you are to weigh in at. So for middle-weight, as opposed to weighing in at exactly 185, it could be anywhere between 182 and 188 pounds. (The ranges would be smaller for the smaller weight classes).

 

[wartor]

Specific gravity is a measure of the density of a liquid compared to water.

Water has a specific gravity of 1.000.
In order to be sufficiently hydrated to weigh in, the fighters must have specific gravity between 1.000 and 1.025.

(The more watery your piss , the more hydrated you are...makes sense right?)

In order to determine the specific gravity you weigh a fixed amount of the liquid.

Sure sure, but if I'm cutting weight your saying my urine has more or less gravity?

 

[brian]

Guys will still have weight advantages by cutting down to a lower bf % vs guys who aren't disciplined enough to do such a thing. I actually like the idea cause it's more healthy for the fighters, they will need more weight classes to implement this solution though.

 

[brian]

I'm on board. However, they would have to adjust the weights a bit.. weighing in at an exact specific weight , e.g 'exactly' 185, without hydrating yourself (even a little) can be tedious.


Therefore, if they were to go ahead and implement a system like this, they should make a range for which you are to weigh in at. So for middle-weight, as opposed to weighing in at exactly 185, it could be anywhere between 182 and 188 pounds. (The ranges would be smaller for the smaller weight classes).

Middle weight is 171-185, lol@ you not knowing this. Nobody has to weigh exactly 185 or whatever weight class.

 

[AminoAcid]

Middle weight is 171-185, lol@ you not knowing this. Nobody has to weigh exactly 185 or whatever weight class.

Wasn't aware.


If that's a case, if this system was to be implemented then a 195 division should be added as well.

 

[Katsumi Yamada]

Sure sure, but if I'm cutting weight your saying my urine has more or less gravity?

It will be more dense, because there are more particles in there per ounce.
That's also why it's darker colour.

Gravity is the same everywhere in earth.

If you rewind the video to about 10 minutes before, they do discuss the moon landings though and how badly they faked the low gravity.

 

[vcmmafan]

Athletes are required to compete at their walk-around weights.

“We don’t use the term weight cutting because there is no cutting,” ONE Championship Vice President Rich Franklin told MMAmania.com. “We’ve developed a system of how we want our athletes to weigh in. The only way we can ensure they’ll actually compete at the weight they walk around at, is by hydration testing.”

“We use an instrument to test the specific gravity of their urine, which tests how much solutes are in their urine,” he continued. “Obviously, the more [solutes] you have, the more dehydrated you are.”

Fighters are tested multiple times for both weight and hydration during fight week. Failure to achieve adequate levels of hydration — or weight — will also result in additional, event-day testing.

“We will not allow our athletes to compete dehydrated,” Franklin said. “But if they happen to be overweight, if they’re hydrated but maybe a half a pound over or something like that, we can negotiate a catchweight. We have parameters for that. They have to be at least 105 percent of their opponent’s weight.”

Fighters competing at this Friday night’s combat sports event in Singapore were able to cruise through fight week without the rigors of cutting weight, according to the former UFC middleweight champion, which returns healthier athletes and ultimately, better performances.

“That system keeps anybody from dropping a significant amount of weight and putting a significant amount of weight back on,” he said. “It’s really difficult to get the athletes to get rid of this whole mentality of cutting weight. It’s so ingrained in them to undo that, it’s really become quite problematic for our industry.”

 

[dieknowsore]

no reason not to do it that way

 

[Katsumi Yamada]

no reason not to do it that way

Exactly!

Unfortunately it took the death of a 21 year old fighter from weight cutting complications before this system was implemented in ONE.

I hope UFC implements this before that happens to them.

 

[HIMBOB]

Been a fan of this method for a while.

Two 185 pound guys fighting in the 185 division instead of the 170 division is hardly a draw back.

 

[UhHuhSure]

From the latest episode of Joe's MMA show.

Ben Askren explains the weigh in system used in ONE Championship (where Askren fought the later part of his career) and how it has successfully eliminated weight cutting, and the associated health risks.

Time-stamped @1:34:54




For those who aren't able to watch the video; Ben explains the weigh in system at ONE which I summarised in the following spoiler

Spoiler

whereby
fighters take a specific gravity urine test, which is immediately weighed, showing whether or not the fighter is hydrated within seconds.

If the fighter is hydrated, he can proceed to step on the scales and weigh in.

If the fighter is not hydrated, he must drink water until he can produce a satisfactory sample and then weigh in.
If he is overweight, he gets fined.
Note that you can be ON WEIGHT, but if you are not hydrated you can't officially weigh in at all.
They can weigh in at any point in the 2 days leading up to the fight.

Both guys agreed that this is the solution for eliminating the dangerous and pointless process of weight cutting.

So what do you guys think? Why aren't UFC implementing this?

The only downside would be that many (the majority) of the fighters would have to change division causing some casual fans to get a bit confused. However they'd still be competing against most of the same guys as they are with the current system.

It seems like various athletic commission are coming up with convoluted ways of mitigating the problems and ignoring the most obvious and easiest solution.

UFC thinks they are trend setters and wont pander to "lesser" organisations. They will soon have to revamp their weigh in policies, however. CSAC is already onboard with some of it.

 

[brian]

They would eliminate the 125lb division correct? Would be fun to see some guys move up two weight classes.

 

[Katsumi Yamada]

They would eliminate the 125lb division correct? Would be fun to see some guys move up two weight classes.

In ONE championship their "Flyweight" moved from 125 to 135 when they made this change.

However they do have a Straw-weight division (previously 115lbs , now 125lbs).
They are based in southeast Asia though where people are tiny so it's not their weakest division.

 

[AC1D1K]

tyvm for the cliffs. great

 

[AC1D1K]

athletic commisioners are cushy jobs for old dinosaurs thats why

 

[Katsumi Yamada]

California passed regulations that are similar to OneFC's (doing hydration testing). I also think that since USADA is doing testing, they should also be weighing the fighters (along with weighing fighters at any UFC event they attend). Having a large sampling of their weight, and their hydration level, would allow for better determination on whether or not a fighter should be license to fight in a specific weigh class, and even if they should be offered a fight at that class.

Increase punishments for missing weight (i.e. 50% - with 30% to opponent and 20% to AC) and limited dehydration and we'll eliminate unsafe weight cutting.

As for the need for weigh limit adjustments, I think the UFC will eventually adopt the ABC's weight classes - 11 Mens': 125,135,145,155,165,175,185,195,205,225,265 & 4 Women's: 115,125,135,145 = 15 total Champions (not counting Interim Champs in whatever weight class(es) Conor is holding up).

Are you talking about this:

The 10-point plan, which can be seen here, includes:

• 1) Requesting MMA fighters to select the lowest weight class in which to compete, and asking questions about weight cutting and dehydration to take into consideration prior to approving fights. The listed division must be declared safe by a physician on a licensee’s paperwork.
• 2) A contestant who fails to make weight is fined 20 percent of his or her show money, with 10 percent going to the commission and 10 percent going to the opponent, in addition to a 20 fine of the contestant’s win bonus, with all of the money going to the opponent.
• 3) Four additional weight classes – 165, 175, 195 and 205 pounds – to give athletes more choice.
• 4) Policy changes to the way matches are approved with an emphasis on appropriate weight class.
• 5) Weight class restrictions for fighters who miss weight more than once. Those fighters may be required to compete in a higher weight class until a physician certifies it’s appropriate and the commission approves.
• 6) Continued early weigh-in procedure to allow fighters the maximum amount of time to rehydrate.
• 7) A second weight check on the day of the event to ensure fighters haven’t gained back more than 10 percent of their body weight. Fighters who gain excessive weight may be asked to move to a higher weight class.
• 8) Checks for dehydration by specific urine gravity and/or a physical by CSAC physicians.
• 9) A recommendation of a 30-day and 10-day weight check for “high level title fights,” similar to those done by the WBC in boxing matches.
• 10) Examination and education for matchmakers, promoters, trainers and athletes on offering, accepting and contracting bouts.

If yes, then I agree the intention is good but it's mostly unnecessary....why not simple ban people from weighing in when they are dehydrated? Surely it solves all the main problems and it's extremely simple