Media Joe Frazier/Ken Norton sparring

[mozfonky]

fucking hilarious. Joe didn't get that. He didn't even lock his elbows much less hold up the weight. It's incredible how far strength and conditioning have come since the 70s.

but weightlifting really has fuck all to do with boxing. throwing punches is a sport specific activity (see Deontay Wilder -- who'd prolly struggle to lift 160 too but punches like a mules).

joe's left elbow couldn't straighten out, he injured it when he was a kid, which is a reason why he relied on the left hook. Boxers then and now probably would not do well in athletic competitions like that, most fighters haven't been encouraged to do a lot of those different things, especially then. You could see joe had probably never been in the water in his fucking life, or rode a bicycle, it's unrealistic to expect him to be able to do it on the spot as well as these other guys, put them in a ring with joe and see who's more athletic, strong and who gets exhausted first.

 

[Hypetrainhipsta]

fucking hilarious. Joe didn't get that. He didn't even lock his elbows much less hold up the weight. It's incredible how far strength and conditioning have come since the 70s.

but weightlifting really has fuck all to do with boxing. throwing punches is a sport specific activity (see Deontay Wilder -- who'd prolly struggle to lift 160 too but punches like a mules).

Just look at Joe Joyce: Great athlete, did track and field in college, at 6´6" guy, 260 pounds heavy, able to do backflips and Capoeira, yet as a boxer he's slow and a bit robotic.

 

[Buddy Revell]

joe's left elbow couldn't straighten out, he injured it when he was a kid, which is a reason why he relied on the left hook. Boxers then and now probably would not do well in athletic competitions like that, most fighters haven't been encouraged to do a lot of those different things, especially then. You could see joe had probably never been in the water in his fucking life, or rode a bicycle, it's unrealistic to expect him to be able to do it on the spot as well as these other guys, put them in a ring with joe and see who's more athletic, strong and who gets exhausted first.

Ah, yes! Good point. I forgot that fact. Still his stance was all wrong so i doubt that he would've gotten the weight up. Seagrin was the only one who had both feet under him while doing the lift -- while all the others, Frazier included, where driving heavily off of one foot. Just all wrong.

But i agree with your overall point, as my earlier point said. Boxing and throwing hands is like weightlifting -- or throwing a ball -- in that its an athletic movement that calls on your total body but is its own distinct athletic endeavor. Only other combat sports that are striking based or include striking compare.

 

[Buddy Revell]

Just look at Joe Joyce: Great athlete, did track and field in college, at 6´6" guy, 260 pounds heavy, able to do backflips and Capoeira, yet as a boxer he's slow and a bit robotic.

Perfect example. I think it was during his fight with Ustinov that i first heard about his previous athletic exploits (i'm not a brit so i wasn't that familiar with him). I was shocked.

He was so awkwards and clumsy looking. He clearly had some physical talent but wasn't in the least bit fluid in anything that he did.

 

[mozfonky]

even if he'd gotten it up, it wouldn't have been anywhere near the football players who were doing around 300 pounds which is insane to me. I don't know how widespread the roid use was back in the 70's and 80's but those guys were incredibly strong. I think on my best day I might be able to do 150, maybe. Strength was never my strongpoint and oddly, people around me think i'm superhuman because they never do anything physical. I always tell them I see guys in the gyms who make me look like a weakling. Saw a guy doing triceps extensions with a 100 pounds, like 10 or 12 of them, another guy i saw doing seated bicep curls with like 80 pound dumbells, i couldn't come close to that.

 

[eternaldarkness]

Yeah Frazier's stamina was amazing. His style looks exhausting but he managed to keep it up for 15 rounds against Ali. Such a great pressure fighter. I can see how Tyson studied him, but while Tyson had more power, he didn't have the same stamina.

Or mental toughness.

 

[aries]

Or mental toughness.

Yeah I certainly wouldn't argue that. Tyson went off the rails which shows a lack of discipline which correlates well with mental toughness.

 

[eternaldarkness]

Yeah I certainly wouldn't argue that. Tyson went off the rails which shows a lack of discipline which correlates well with mental toughness.

Not that I'm knocking Tysons toughness, but he did get frustrated if things didn't go his way. A lot of front runners suffer from the same problem.

 

[mozfonky]

for a fighter who has a rep of taking a lot of punches, Joe is one of my favorite fighters to watch and try to analyze, He's one of the most complex defensive fighters i've seen. Most fighters have a few ways that they operate their defense, joe would throw bobs, weaves, slips, parries all together, sometimes looking like he had psychic anticipation of what was coming. I'll always have a higher regard for Joe than most fans and experts do.