Elections Joe Biden Is Running for 2020

Voting for the Iraq War is an automatic "Three strikes, you're out" for me for any candidate. Hundreds of thousands dead, the rise of ISIS, the further destabilization of the Middle East, etc. It's crazy how people like Bush and Biden aren't considered war criminals by the mass public.
I don't think W went there with intentions to be a war monger. Dude was a fool. Cheney ran his focus group on who should be his VP. Turned out that focus group thought Cheney should be his VP. Guy was toolbox
 
Policy wise I think we have had a run of five very inept presidents

You thinking that should send up some red flags that there's a problem with your method or your historical understanding. And, no, Obama is one of the best presidents America has ever had. And Clinton and Bush 41 were OK. Also not sure why you excepted Reagan, Carter, Ford, or Nixon from your scorn.
 
You thinking that should send up some red flags that there's a problem with your method or your historical understanding. And, no, Obama is one of the best presidents America has ever had. And Clinton and Bush 41 were OK. Also not sure why you excepted Reagan, Carter, Ford, or Nixon from your scorn.

In terms of (domestic) policy imo:

1. Obama
2. Nixon
3. Carter
4. Clinton
5. George H.W. Bush

6. Ford
7. Reagan
8. George W. Bush
9. Trump
 
In terms of (domestic) policy imo:

1. Obama
2. Nixon
3. Carter
4. Clinton
5. George H.W. Bush

6. Ford
7. Reagan
8. George W. Bush
9. Trump

I don't think Trump has passed W yet. Don't think as highly of Carter or Nixon (!) as you do. But something like this.
 
I don't think Trump has passed W yet. Don't think as highly of Carter or Nixon (!) as you do. But something like this.

In terms of facial validity and good faith of policies, Trump is on another planet imo. His policies are the same as GWB's but more reckless, more disregardful of professional expertise, more openly corrupt, and less defensible since we already had GWB's failures to show that they are not good.

Nixon's foreign policy was probably the most despicable of any president in modern history, but he was a low key GOAT policy wonk and most of his bad domestic policy was owed to his party's partisan politics and fulfilling partisan campaign promises (attacking LBJ's Great Society, representing southern whites, cutting down on welfare abuse).
 
In terms of facial validity and good faith of policies, Trump is on another planet imo. His policies are the same as GWB's but more reckless, more disregardful of professional expertise, more openly corrupt, and less defensible since we already had GWB's failures to show that they are not good.

Nixon's foreign policy was probably the most despicable of any president in modern history, but he was a low key GOAT policy wonk and most of his bad domestic policy was owed to his party's partisan politics and fulfilling partisan campaign promises (attacking LBJ's Great Society, representing southern whites, cutting down on welfare abuse).

The issue with Trump vs. W is that W made far more consequential changes. But yes on the other stuff.

And it sounds to me like you're just making excuses for Nixon. I really don't understand the desire of a lot of the left to try to elevate Nixon, who was vile personally and not a great president on policy, to the level of great president. Also, it seems to me that just as it's a mistake to blame Obama for austerity when he was pushing against it, it's a mistake to give Nixon credit for policy being forced on him that he opposed.
 
And it sounds to me like you're just making excuses for Nixon. I really don't understand the desire of a lot of the left to try to elevate Nixon, who was vile personally and not a great president on policy, to the level of great president. Also, it seems to me that just as it's a mistake to blame Obama for austerity when he was pushing against it, it's a mistake to give Nixon credit for policy being forced on him that he opposed.

I don't think that there is a desire to "elevate him." I think there is a desire to point out that he was a better president with better policy and far greater knowledge than Reagan, the man who is now lionized as the great Republican president. Whereas Reagan looted the country and engaged in Trump-style denials of reality in order to sugar coat his actions, Nixon actually synchronized the two pillars of the American right, (i) conservative economy and (ii) white identity politics, with a liberal pragmatism. He fluffed his conservative backers with welfare queen rhetoric and lip service to federalism while expanding and centralizing entitlement spending, and he fluffed his Southern white supporters while expanding voting protections, the Philadelphia Plan, and subsidizing black entrepreneurship. He also promoted market-oriented healthcare reforms that, while a far cry from the de-marketization that I would prefer, I would think you would really like. And, of course, the EPA and OSHA.

Now, Nixon was an authoritarian, a racist, an anti-semite, and a war criminal, but I think it's helpful in pointing out that his domestic policy and posture was way, way better than his Republican predecessors.
 
I don't think that there is a desire to "elevate him." I think there is a desire to point out that he was a better president with better policy and far greater knowledge than Reagan, the man who is now lionized as the great Republican president. Whereas Reagan looted the country and engaged in Trump-style denials of reality in order to sugar coat his actions, Nixon actually synchronized the two pillars of the American right, (i) conservative economy and (ii) white identity politics, with a liberal pragmatism. He fluffed his conservative backers with welfare queen rhetoric and lip service to federalism while expanding and centralizing entitlement spending, and he fluffed his Southern white supporters while expanding voting protections, the Philadelphia Plan, and subsidizing black entrepreneurship. He also promoted market-oriented healthcare reforms that, while a far cry from the de-marketization that I would prefer, I would think you would really like. And, of course, the EPA and OSHA.

Now, Nixon was an authoritarian, a racist, an anti-semite, and a war criminal, but I think it's helpful in pointing out that his domestic policy and posture was way, way better than his Republican predecessors.

IMO, you're not considering the climate at the time, and giving him credit for things he was forced to do by Congress. Also, stuff like this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-universal-child-care/?utm_term=.38d30b00de84

The Nixon praise from the left comes from misunderstanding the role of president, IMO.
 
Taking bets that Trumps first tweet after the announcement will have "Creepy Joe Biden" in it.
 
Back
Top