Jiu-Jitsu vs Vale tudo

[Uchi Mata]

Why not go to mma? Finding old school jiu-jitsu would be pretty rare nowadays

They like myths and pajamas.

 

[Jeff Goldblum69]

Kron is not as good at sport as the sport guys, and not as good at fighting as MMA guys. If you want to be a good fighter, train MMA. If you want to compete in sport BJJ, train sport BJJ. It's a preference not a value judgement.

Not as good as the sport guys ? Winning adcc is probably the most prestigious sport bjj tournament on the planet ..


And he hasn't even had a fight in MMA yet, so how do you judge how good he is?

 

[Uchi Mata]

Not as good as the sport guys ? Winning adcc is probably the most prestigious sport bjj tournament on the planet ..


And he hasn't even had a fight in MMA yet, so how do you judge how good he is?

Kron is a very high level BJJ guys for sure, but he never won worlds. My point was that if you're talking sport BJJ he never beat the top sport guys at their own game (and this from a lineage that takes the use of the gi very seriously, even though their style is really more suited to no-gi as his ADCC win showed). And as for MMA, if he's so good why isn't he fighting in the UFC as opposed to some 3rd promotion? Shouldn't his superior BJJ allow him to immediately go in and dominate Pettis and Bendo? More likely he'd just get KTFO since if you want to fight MMA you need to train MMA.

 

[MrBen]

Kron might have never won the worlds but he has submitted a few champs.

When he competed at lightweight he submitted Leandro Lo,Durinho.
At middleweight he has submitted Octavio Sousa,Delson Heleno.

He has a submission also over Antonio Peinado "Batista"(isn't a champ but respected name) at brown belt.

He also has a victory over Michael Langhi.

Those are the middleweight champs from 2012-2014 and lightweight champs from 2009-2013.

 

[Jeff Goldblum69]

Kron is a very high level BJJ guys for sure, but he never won worlds.

meh in this climate the mundials are getting less and less relevant every year .. Imo the ADCC is still the premier and most prestigious grappling tournament .

And as for MMA, if he's so good why isn't he fighting in the UFC as opposed to some 3rd promotion? Shouldn't his superior BJJ allow him to immediately go in and dominate Pettis and Bendo?

Are you trolling?? Nobody goes straight to the UFC.. All fights start in smaller promotions..

More likely he'd just get KTFO since if you want to fight MMA you need to train MMA.

Wtf? Are you saying training at Caesar Gracie's with Diaz bros, Melendez,shields Etc ISNT training MMA????

 

[Uchi Mata]

meh in this climate the mundials are getting less and less relevant every year .. Imo the ADCC is still the premier and most prestigious grappling tournament .

Not in the sport BJJ world.

Are you trolling?? Nobody goes straight to the UFC.. All fights start in smaller promotions..

A little bit, because I don't expect anyone to start in the UFC. But given his lineage (literally who his dad is) if he wanted to start in the UFC he probably could and if he was successful there it would certainly prove the efficacy of 'pure' BJJ.

Wtf? Are you saying training at Caesar Gracie's with Diaz bros, Melendez,shields Etc ISNT training MMA????

So...he's training MMA then? What does that say about his confidence in pure BJJ?

Look, I'm not saying you can't be a submission grappling focused MMA fighter and have success. But to do so you need to train a lot more than pure BJJ, and Kron rightly recognizes that. But it does undermine some of the BJJ traditionalism (odd thing to say about such a young martial art) that come branches of the Gracie family preach like gospel.

 

[RTD1]

@ RTD1 r u paied by Gracie University to spam or... you thought this was an appropriate thread to post that relevant ..post!?! haha

I guess you didn't actually read what I posted?

 

[BJJ_Rage]

come on boys, right now, theres just no way to cut it clean anymore in MMA with just subgrappling, there is just no way, the rules prevented, but not only that, every single fighter in the UFC now has a very good technical level on the ground, even if it is only to stand back up, and it is very fucking hard to grapple with someone that doesnt want to engage in a ground war.

There is abolutely no need to prove anything else for kron, pure jiu jitsu just inst enough, just like Striking or wrestling arent enough by them selfes... however, BJJ or at better said, GJJ will continue to be the single most efficient art to fight a regular joe on the street (and I dont mean a drunk dork) at least if its trained for that purpose. (yes I said GJJ)

 

[Anthas]

come on boys, right now, theres just no way to cut it clean anymore in MMA with just subgrappling, there is just no way, the rules prevented, but not only that, every single fighter in the UFC now has a very good technical level on the ground, even if it is only to stand back up, and it is very fucking hard to grapple with someone that doesnt want to engage in a ground war.

There is abolutely no need to prove anything else for kron, pure jiu jitsu just inst enough, just like Striking or wrestling arent enough by them selfes... however, BJJ or at better said, GJJ will continue to be the single most efficient art to fight a regular joe on the street (and I dont mean a drunk dork) at least if its trained for that purpose. (yes I said GJJ)

I agree, and that's why we need to make a distinction . Because most of us are not training Gracie jiu jitsu anymore, insted we are training sport bjj, which lacks a lot of the basics of the original bjj but has a ton of new techniques that only work in a sport setting. It's not the same thing. A black belt who has been training with punches and taking down a striking opponent his whole career and a sport bjj black belt, who would probably win in a sport match but would loose in a vale tudo fight.

 

[Dirty Holt]

At sport BJJ competitions, you are going to see sport BJJ. People arent getting into the sporting aspect of BJJ to learn self defense, just like they dont get into basketball to learn self defense either.

There is no doubt that if you changed the rules of the competition, the competitors would adapt their BJJ. Proof is MMA. You cant take a competitors entering a sport BJJ competition, look at what they do, then say what these guys train wont work in the street.

 

[Cube Xtreme]

personally the reason i made this thread was also because, ok you get unfortunately someone controlling you from side or mount whatever...n though you can still lockdown, take a moment to breath and use your hip escape or whatever again any technique, i just keep in my mind actually that on that moment my head is just out there...he could just punch the hell out of me! and i just getting more and more important not to even land in those positions!!

 

[raty tat tat]

you are probably going to get some angry responses. but not from me as I like these discussions!

but my opinion is I agree with you! I think some sports techniques are silly and I absolutely hate it in class when a technique is being demonstrated and the coach says, this will get you points in IBJJF competitions, erm bro I don't care about that, I want to be able to defend my self when I accidentally knock a 260 pounders pint over in as bar and he trys to kill me

Thats not the instructors fault or anything its just my take on it, he does a good balance of MMA and sport based techniques, while I want to compete in sport, I will make no changes to my style, I will assume the guy can hit me, which is what I do in class

This is why I want to learn jiu-jitsu I'am not really into the sporting
side of it.

 

[Uchi Mata]

you are probably going to get some angry responses. but not from me as I like these discussions!

but my opinion is I agree with you! I think some sports techniques are silly and I absolutely hate it in class when a technique is being demonstrated and the coach says, this will get you points in IBJJF competitions, erm bro I don't care about that, I want to be able to defend my self when I accidentally knock a 260 pounders pint over in as bar and he trys to kill me

Thats not the instructors fault or anything its just my take on it, he does a good balance of MMA and sport based techniques, while I want to compete in sport, I will make no changes to my style, I will assume the guy can hit me, which is what I do in class

Why don't you just train MMA if you're really that worried about self defense? It's clearly better than pure BJJ for that purpose.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Why don't you just train MMA if you're really that worried about self defense? It's clearly better than pure BJJ for that purpose.

I get this question ALL the time when we are going about SD classes...

and my answer is simple, because I like to do bjj, not MT... I dont like to kick and punch a bag/air/partner... I just dont like to do stand up training, nor should I. If you are training bjj, SD/vale tudo/call it as you want should be trained... how much of it? well that just depends on the gym...after a while, its obvius that most of the training will be focus on the sportive side, but putting on gloves once in a while and grappling with strikes is a good idea IMHO

 

[lechien]

I get this question ALL the time when we are going about SD classes...

and my answer is simple, because I like to do bjj, not MT... I dont like to kick and punch a bag/air/partner... I just dont like to do stand up training, nor should I. If you are training bjj, SD/vale tudo/call it as you want should be trained... how much of it? well that just depends on the gym...after a while, its obvius that most of the training will be focus on the sportive side, but putting on gloves once in a while and grappling with strikes is a good idea IMHO

Yep.

 

[WARRIOR POET]

Hi Guys

I saw a lot of berimbolos and stuff like that now in the Worlds Jiu-Jitsu 2014 and yes it works in Sport Jiu-Jitsu.

But wouldnt you prefer to Jiu-Jitsu to be stay closer to self defense and moves to work in the street?

Just as Kron for example thta he sticks to basics and he will try to proove it now also stepping into MMA.

What do you think?
I much more prefer the real old school Rickson Jiu-Jitsu over the sport Jiu-Jitsu!

ryron "never been in a fight" gracie posts here?