Jiu Jitsu Reigns again!!!

For the record you can throw a hail Mary 10 times a game if you want that does not mean it is not a hail mary.

Triangles are Hail mary's? Man, you wouldn't BELIEVE how many hail mary's I grapple with. And to think, I thought all those set ups and finishes I learned were actual techniques but according to you..I'm just throwing my legs up there willie-nillie and hoping my legs accidentally wrap around something the right way. :redface:
 
But it wasn't something crazy it wasn't a wild card attempt. The triangle/armbar is probably the most popular sub from bottom. And usually in MMA who ever is on bottom is in danger, doesn't mean every sub from guard is a hailmary.

Agreed, I guess what people are trying to say is "Had Silva not won, he would have lost that fight."

If that makes any sense. The fact that it went 23 minutes really highlights that Silva is indeed beatable and not just that, was dominated.

I know what I just said defy's logic but I guess Sonnen did enough work for 23 minutes that he should and could have just defended (if he even knows how) for the last 2 minutes and he could have walked away with a comfy unanimous decision.
 
Triangles are Hail mary's? Man, you wouldn't BELIEVE how many hail mary's I grapple with. And to think, I thought all those set ups and finishes I learned were actual techniques but according to you..I'm just throwing my legs up there willie-nillie and hoping my legs accidentally wrap around something the right way. :redface:

ugh, Lets back up.

Can we put in in context. You cannot tell me Silva's plan was to be controlled an entire fight, absorb nearly 300 strikes in order to have a chance to submit Sonnen.

Silva did what he had to do and won the fight, but as I said in the post above this one..had he not won, he would have lost that fight...LOL..

:)
 
Triangles are Hail mary's? Man, you wouldn't BELIEVE how many hail mary's I grapple with. And to think, I thought all those set ups and finishes I learned were actual techniques but according to you..I'm just throwing my legs up there willie-nillie and hoping my legs accidentally wrap around something the right way. :redface:

Not to be a dick, but that was a hail mary Triangle. There wasn't much of a setup to it. Not that there needed to be, since Chael is so awful on the ground. I'm actually glad to see Chael loss in this manner and understand the importance of a well rounded game.
 
Hypothetically speaking; if god himself, gave me the choice(after watching lasts nights fight), to be good at wrestling or jiu-jitsu; i am sorry, but i would pick wrestling. I rather dominate fights, instead of praying for hail mary's. All credit to Anderson, but he was getting bullied and tossed around by a collegiate wrestler for almost the entire five rounds.

i know what you mean. i train bjj but it made me question my art a bit watching most of the attempts by anderson fail. you cant say it was a hail mary though. it was a sub that he kept trying to set up and its no accident that he clipped that triangle. travis lutter is a serious bjj black belt for instance and anderson managed to triangle him. chaels base was too good for anderson to land any sweets but im happy at the end result. anderson win, chael lose
 
i know what you mean. i train bjj but it made me question my art a bit watching most of the attempts by anderson fail. you cant say it was a hail mary though. it was a sub that he kept trying to set up and its no accident that he clipped that triangle. travis lutter is a serious bjj black belt for instance and anderson managed to triangle him. chaels base was too good for anderson to land any sweets but im happy at the end result. anderson win, chael lose
Well isten, that is the problem with being too in love with a style.

We look at fights and think bad performances reflect on us and we look at good performances and think they reflect on us.

Tell me every BJJ white belt on this board weren't looking for some random russian to fight after the Werdum/Fedor fight? If you say no you are lying..lol...

The thing is what these fighters do in the ring mean NOTHING in terms of what we can do, it is just that simple. So disregard bad fights for BJJ guys and disregard good fights for BJJ guys it means zilch when it comes to you.

Last night the wrestlers did very very well...Fitch, Guida, Hughes and even Sonnen for 23 minutes but on nights when these guys dont do as well I am not down on wrestling nor question it's effectivenss. These are fights with fighters and I am not silly enough to think that the results of these guys mean anything to me as if everyone will now fear me becasue some random wrestler won an MMA fight.

The reverse is also true, them all losing wouldnt make me a puss.
 
If that's jiu jitsu, I don't want any part of it. Getting your face smashed in for 23 minutes is not viable whether you end up in the winning circle or not.
 
Agreed, I guess what people are trying to say is "Had Silva not won, he would have lost that fight."

If that makes any sense. The fact that it went 23 minutes really highlights that Silva is indeed beatable and not just that, was dominated.

I know what I just said defy's logic but I guess Sonnen did enough work for 23 minutes that he should and could have just defended (if he even knows how) for the last 2 minutes and he could have walked away with a comfy unanimous decision.

totally agree. he was winning hands down and shocking everyone. The fight was his to lose. Great fight and I look forward to a rematch
 
Hypothetically speaking; if god himself, gave me the choice(after watching lasts nights fight), to be good at wrestling or jiu-jitsu; i am sorry, but i would pick wrestling. I rather dominate fights, instead of praying for hail mary's. All credit to Anderson, but he was getting bullied and tossed around by a collegiate wrestler for almost the entire five rounds.

And Anderson still won. This is what so many people love about BJJ is the fact that it doesn't matter how bad it looks, the fact is that wrestling controls where the fight goes, that's it. BJJ or submission wrestling ends fight on the ground. I would pick BJJ over wrestling 100% of the time.

1) What if there is no time limit?

2) What if there is no UFC President threatening to fire the other fighter if he doesn't stop clowning fighters & to start being aggressive?

God forbid the wrestler not be able to take his opponent down or if the wrestler gets taken down. Now you have a fighter that isn't a threat in either area. Like I said, I would pick BJJ 100% of the time.
 
If headbutts were allowed, wrestlers would win 95% of the time.

I've never trained wrestling, but when I see something like that fight last night, or Nogueira's "wins," it doesn't make me proud of BJJ, it makes me want to be a wrestler.

Now Aoki ... that's some BJJ I can respect. Getting punched in the face for 20 minutes and pulling out a "win," not so much.
 
And Anderson still won. This is what so many people love about BJJ is the fact that it doesn't matter how bad it looks, the fact is that wrestling controls where the fight goes, that's it. BJJ or submission wrestling ends fight on the ground. I would pick BJJ over wrestling 100% of the time.

1) What if there is no time limit?

2) What if there is no UFC President threatening to fire the other fighter if he doesn't stop clowning fighters & to start being aggressive?

God forbid the wrestler not be able to take his opponent down or if the wrestler gets taken down. Now you have a fighter that isn't a threat in either area. Like I said, I would pick BJJ 100% of the time.

Didnt Hughes, Fitch and Guida fight last night too?
 
If that's jiu jitsu, I don't want any part of it. Getting your face smashed in for 23 minutes is not viable whether you end up in the winning circle or not.

Id rather get my face beat on for 23 minutes that have my arm broken for 8+ Weeks. God forbid that be my butt wiping hand side.
 
ugh, Lets back up.

Can we put in in context. You cannot tell me Silva's plan was to be controlled an entire fight, absorb nearly 300 strikes in order to have a chance to submit Sonnen.

Silva did what he had to do and won the fight, but as I said in the post above this one..had he not won, he would have lost that fight...LOL..

:)

No no, I agree that he got his asswhooped the entire time..in fact...It almost looked fake. Sonnen would pass guard, get into side control and then purposely get back into guard.

Silva had a kimura locked in and let go of it to go for a heel hook..then just kind of let go of it too.

He had a billion chances for armbars, jiu-jitsu was there waiting for him but for whatever reason...he didn't trust in it. (Maybe his ribs were really fucked up and it was hard to move on the ground, I don't know)

But yeah, I agree, he was loosing the fight. But then again IMO..sonnen was exhausted and pitter pattering his face most of the time while silva was resting, taking the slaps, and then exploading with elbows from the bottom after landing some heavy shots before he got taken down round after round.

I think Silva did more damage after the first round though, again, it almost looked fake or something...sonnen was either exhausted or doing just enough to look busy.
Exhausting your self using wrestling to wehere you can only pitter patter your opponents face is no more impressive and in fact is less impressive than a good o' triangle that you can use at anytime, regardless of how tired you are to finish the fight.

Sonnen seems like he got ropey-doped, which is actually, good o' classical jiu-jitsu. If a guy is bigger or stronger than you...you use jiu-jitsu to keep yourself safe until your opponent gets tired and either becomes weaker than you OR gets tired and gets sloppy making a mistake. AND THATS exactly what happened....silva never got REALLY hurt from sonnen after the first round, he stayed safe, landed some BIG elbows....and then when sonnen got tired and sloppy..he finished him with a good o' triangle.
 
My post from the other thread:

Good night for jiu jitsu? Maybe, I dunno. Silva's triangle was nice, but also Hughes put Almeida to sleep with a front headlock. Whether he was dazed from the punch or not doesn't matter, it still happened. Listen, those of us who train know that it's a highly effective grappling style. Even proponents of other grappling styles train bjj to round out their game (just as many of us train or incorporate other styles into what we do). So one night doesn't shift the game one way or another.
 
If headbutts were allowed, wrestlers would win 95% of the time.

I've never trained wrestling, but when I see something like that fight last night, or Nogueira's "wins," it doesn't make me proud of BJJ, it makes me want to be a wrestler.

Now Aoki ... that's some BJJ I can respect. Getting punched in the face for 20 minutes and pulling out a "win," not so much.

It wasn't impressive in the sense you are saying. Wrestling like this seems to only work when its in the hands of freaks of nature. When you put wrestling in the hands of cardio Gods like this...yeah..its amazing. (But ONLY once you've taught this wrestler some basic jiu-jitsu)

You take any black belt in jiu-jitsu and put him in the ring with a pure wrestler with equal time on the mat....the wrestler will more than likely get subbed. Other styles only seem to work against Jiu-Jitsu ONCE they have learned jiu-jitsu.

Jiu-jitsu is still impressive, it is a staple in MMA, you HAVE to have it. When another person adds jiu-jitsu to his game and then beats jiu-jitsu..that isn't a bad look on jiu-jitsu..thats just jiu-jitsu beating jiu-jitsu on one level or another. Whats impressive about jiu-jitsu is you can get out of tight situations and no matter how tired you are...since technique is the emphasis, you never stop being dangerous...a power puncher once he is tired might not EVER be able to muster enough strength to knock some one out once he is tired. Jiu-jitsu? Man, you can pull off a triangle in the last 30 seconds of a 5 round fight when your tired.
 
It wasn't impressive in the sense you are saying. Wrestling like this seems to only work when its in the hands of freaks of nature. When you put wrestling in the hands of cardio Gods like this...yeah..its amazing. (But ONLY once you've taught this wrestler some basic jiu-jitsu)

You take any black belt in jiu-jitsu and put him in the ring with a pure wrestler with equal time on the mat....the wrestler will more than likely get subbed. Other styles only seem to work against Jiu-Jitsu ONCE they have learned jiu-jitsu.

That is a very unfair statement Poppa becuase as I am sure you are well aware most old school BJJ bb's have infuense from wrestling, Judo and Sambo and by default so do their students. And any new school BJJ player likely has a wrestling or Judo coach at his gym even tough they have molded much of the techniques into the style already.

Again, we are all a little too concerned with the "style" thing as if what we see on tv reflects on us.
 
That is a very unfair statement Poppa becuase as I am sure you are well aware most old school BJJ bb's have infuense from wrestling, Judo and Sambo and by default so do their students. And any new school BJJ player likely has a wrestling or Judo coach at his gym even tough they have already molded much of the techniques into the style already.

Again, we are all a little too concerned with the "style" thing as if what we see on tv reflects on us.

Good point.
 
hughes trains submission wrestling at least, i do not think the arm bar and rnc wins he was-which he has a lot of wins by sub- come from american wrestling.

what it prove is that you better train in bjj/nogi/subwrestling or whatever you want to call it.

If sonnen would stop being a dip shit and train bjj/ng/sw then he could at least get good enough to know that someone is setting him up for a submission and basic sub defense.

Wrestling is good for mma, but you have to modify it based on subs and striking.

too bad jake is not fighting MW as he could possibly put on the same wrestling clinic chael did but has the bjj to not get subbed like that.
 
Silva looked like crap ! It was a Hail Mary that saved him .

if by "hail mary" you mean... training day in and day out for the same position that he had and transitioning to a move he's no doubt practiced THOUSANDS of times JUST LIKE the position he was in, then yeah

*is confused by ignorance* :rolleyes:
 
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