Jimmy Carter: America is an Oligarchy

[Cubo de Sangre]

truth

I Wonder which community runs america

We the people. But we've got our streaks of ignorance and apathy that can be preyed upon (oftentimes willingly).

 

[RetiredWisFighter]

O rly? I guess you didn't read the very first paragraph or listen to the actual YouTube clip (all of 1:26 long) that set up those later statements where he opined that this could be extended to even lesser officers that were incumbent.

"The essence of what made America a great country and its political system, now is just an oligarchy with unlimited political bribery being the essence of getting the nominations for President or elected President, and the same thing applies to governors and US senators and congress."
- Jimmy Carter

Spoiler

More like

Spoiler

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

Are there really people who believe the Citizens United ruling is actually good for America...


and im talking strictly about people who haven't been bought and sold..

 

[Gervinho]

The moron who followed him ruined the country.

Still reeling from his policies today.

Well according to fox news Carter was the worst president the US had and Reagan saved the country and made it great. One thing I never understood was didnt Reagan legalize bunch of illegals? I read that somehwere, but according to fox he didnt and was very strict on illegal immigration:icon_conf

 

[Jack V Savage]

Jimmy Carter was the best president the US ever had. He spoke the truth.

Let's not go in the other extreme. He wasn't as bad as people say, but it wasn't a great presidency either. More of a placeholder type.

Well according to fox news Carter was the worst president the US had and Reagan saved the country and made it great. One thing I never understood was didnt Reagan legalize bunch of illegals? I read that somehwere, but according to fox he didnt and was very strict on illegal immigration:icon_conf

Reagan won by big margins, talked the conservative talk and is the only Republican president in the past 40 years who didn't leave office as an embarrassment (Bush 41's rep has risen since he left office, but he still also is seen as betraying the nuts in the party). The party needs an example--mythical or not--of a successful presidency in other to sell their next guy.

 

[Pupi]

I'd say that we're living in a plutocracy, but that's not that far off from Carters perception anyhow.

 

[Seriously-Dead]

Carter on Hilary:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/jimm...ders-threat-hillary-clinton/story?id=32310151

“From what I can tell as a completely almost disinterested observer from south Georgia -- who's not involved in politics anymore -- there won't be any problem with Hillary getting the nomination because money dominates and she has an inside track to the massive amounts that are going to pour into the Democratic party side,” Carter told ABC News’ George Stephanopoulos.

Pretty safe to say that Carter sees her as the status quo establishment candidate.

Pretty safe to say that Jack is crazy to suggest that Hilary is anti-establishment.

That is all.

 

[Final Rehab]

Let's not go in the other extreme. He wasn't as bad as people say, but it wasn't a great presidency either. More of a placeholder type.

He wasn't a great President but he had so much going against him. Stagflation, Iran hostage crisis, energy crisis, none of which any President could have magically solved. The Olympic boycott was unpopular, the hostage rescue attempt failed badly, and it seemed like the USA was in a generally shitty mood during his tenure and to many he represents that time so his Presidency is looked back on as a monumental failure so then...

Reagan won by big margins, talked the conservative talk and is the only Republican president in the past 40 years who didn't leave office as an embarrassment (Bush 41's rep has risen since he left office, but he still also is seen as betraying the nuts in the party). The party needs an example--mythical or not--of a successful presidency in other to sell their next guy.

...that smiling Cowboy/Actor came in and convinced America that we were awesome, it was "morning again in America" brah. The hostages came home, we kicked ass at the Olympics (since the USSR boycotted, of course), he took a bullet and lived, outspent the Russians, and have you seen Rocky IV? USA baby!!!

Forget that Reaganomics is one of the biggest lies ever foisted on the Nation, the Iran/Contra thing (technically treason but whatever), the escalation of the "War on Drugs" that has caused tremendous damage to the US (though if you bought stock in private prisons at the right time you are probably doing well), Reagan's second term tax increase that was the largest peacetime tax increase in US history at the time, and the likelihood that he was in the early stages of Alzheimer's while leading the Country and yeah Reagan was the shit.

He did grant amnesty to approximately 3 million illegal immigrants though, so God bless him. Reagan FTW!!!

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

^^^^^^ Reagan was also a traitor to the 2nd Amendment.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Pretty safe to say that Jack is crazy to suggest that Hilary is anti-establishment.

Again, it all depends on your definition of "establishment." To some people, being popular makes you part of the establishment. Or being supported by unions or minorities. I see it as, you know, the actual establishment. Clearly, Clinton's policy proposals make her, along with Sanders, the most "anti-establishment" notable candidates currently running.

^^^^^^ Reagan was also a traitor to the 2nd Amendment.

Reagan was also president before the time when any Republican who wasn't completely flipping insane was called a "traitor" by loonies in the party.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Reagan was also president before the time when any Republican who wasn't completely flipping insane was called a "traitor" by loonies in the party.

I'm not making the connection between your statement and mine. I was referring to Firearms Owners Protection Act (yeah, it included pro-2nd concessions). I consider the machine gun ban (except for government forces of course) to be exactly the type of law the Amendment specifically protects against. The federal government passed a law that ensured American citizens have less access to militia-appropriate small arms then they do. Unfortunately I think the gun lobby was mainly for hunters so they didn't mind selling out the "nutjobs".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_Owners_Protection_Act

 

[Jack V Savage]

I'm not making the connection between your statement and mine.

Talking about why Reagan is so beloved by the right today. Before Reagan, conservatives didn't expect to get their way on every issue and then burn with hatred when they perceive that they didn't. Now they do.

Also, you're missing the racial component of the gun issue during Reagan's time.

 

[ultramanhyata]

Again, it all depends on your definition of "establishment." To some people, being popular makes you part of the establishment. Or being supported by unions or minorities. I see it as, you know, the actual establishment. Clearly, Clinton's policy proposals make her, along with Sanders, the most "anti-establishment" notable candidates currently running.

I think Jack's trying to say that if we define the "establishment" as all those who disagree with Hillary's policy positions, then she is "anti-establishment".

It stands to reason.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I think Jack's trying to say that if we define the "establishment" as all those who disagree with Hillary's policy positions, then she is "anti-establishment".

It stands to reason.

I get it. The way to be cool and "anti-establishment" is to support a reduced safety net, anti-union policies, lower capital-gains taxes, and the elimination of the estate tax. That's how you really fight the oligarchy. Educational thread. Thanks, guys.

 

[andnowweknow]

I get it. The way to be cool and "anti-establishment" is to support a reduced safety net, anti-union policies, lower capital-gains taxes, and the elimination of the estate tax. That's how you really fight the oligarchy. Educational thread. Thanks, guys.

Jack, you're proposing a very nuanced point here, don't be surprised that people aren't on board. It's not because they are dumb either, it's because your nuanced point is teetering on the edge of in your face bs to some extent.

She's anti-establishment perhaps in certain policies, but trying to convince anyone that a Clinton, someone who we all know will act according to similar policies as her husband would, is anything but "par for the course" is a stretch.

As far as being good for the country, she's a huge step up from anything the R's will dish out seriously, but that doesn't mean she's not at the heart of the good old boy network in Washington.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Jack, you're proposing a very nuanced point here, don't be surprised that people aren't on board. It's not because they are dumb either, it's because your nuanced point is teetering on the edge of in your face bs to some extent.

I'm not surprised, but I think that the perception of Clinton is influenced by some unfair media coverage (partly caused by her own attitude toward the media, which is, in turn, partly caused by unfair coverage) and a lot of outright propaganda.

She's anti-establishment perhaps in certain policies, but trying to convince anyone that a Clinton, someone who we all know will act according to similar policies as her husband would, is anything but "par for the course" is a stretch.

We don't know that. I'm old enough to remember the Clinton years, and the perception on both sides was always that she was the real liberal, anti-Wall Street type tugging Bill to the left. On the other side, I remember a lot of hardcore anti-Clinton types thinking that she was the real evil one. One of the ideas in the 2008 primary was that Obama was preferable to Clinton because he wouldn't inspire as much hatred from finance types and from the loony right (swing and a miss on that one!). That's also why Obama was courted by finance in 2008 (though he was obviously abandoned by them in 2012).

Now whether all of that is true (all the conventional wisdom I mentioned) is not known to any of us, but the things have changed and the fact that the change is exactly in the direction that many powerful people want it to change should raise alarms. It's not even something worth dwelling on, as we're not electing a school president. Policy is what matters, and I think Clinton and Sanders are clearly the anti-establishment candidates in the current field in terms of policy. The people calling her an establishment candidate are the same ones who thought that Ron Paul was an anti-establishment candidate (the only person with the cuts to tell the establishment that the real problems with America are that they aren't rich enough and that life is too easy for the poor).

As far as being good for the country, she's a huge step up from anything the R's will dish out seriously, but that doesn't mean she's not at the heart of the good old boy network in Washington.

I don't know what to tell you. I don't look at it in those terms.

 

[ultramanhyata]

I get it. The way to be cool and "anti-establishment" is to support a reduced safety net, anti-union policies, lower capital-gains taxes, and the elimination of the estate tax. That's how you really fight the oligarchy. Educational thread. Thanks, guys.

No. To be "anti-establishment" in 2015 means, among other things, overturning Citizens United and getting big money out of the democratic process, supporting a first rung, living wage, significantly increasing tax rates on the very wealthiest Americans, breaking up the banks and not deploying US troops to fight wars of aggression in foreign lands.

Feel the Bern!

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Also, you're missing the racial component of the gun issue during Reagan's time.

So Reagan was a racist too?

 

[Madmick]

Carter on Hilary:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/jimm...ders-threat-hillary-clinton/story?id=32310151


Pretty safe to say that Carter sees her as the status quo establishment candidate.

Pretty safe to say that Jack is crazy to suggest that Hilary is anti-establishment.

That is all.

Jesus, JVS utterly destroyed twice in one thread.

I get it. The way to be cool and "anti-establishment" is to support a reduced safety net, anti-union policies, lower capital-gains taxes, and the elimination of the estate tax. That's how you really fight the oligarchy. Educational thread. Thanks, guys.

LOL, tantrum time. So emotional lately.

 

[Jack V Savage]

No. To be "anti-establishment" in 2015 means, among other things, overturning Citizens United and getting big money out of the democratic process, supporting a first rung, living wage, significantly increasing tax rates on the very wealthiest Americans, breaking up the banks and not deploying US troops to fight wars of aggression in foreign lands.

So a combination of things that Clinton is trying to do and things that have no possibility of happening and in some cases would hurt everyone. Got it.

So Reagan was a racist too?

Of course.

Jesus, JVS utterly destroyed twice in one thread.

LOL, tantrum time. So emotional lately.

Looks like I have a little pet.