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Those eras are built, defined and remembered due the fighters that fight in the respective era, so the credit that they get is absolutely justified.
Jeff Mayweather knows who Floyd is gonna fight
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Those eras are built, defined and remembered due the fighters that fight in the respective era, so the credit that they get is absolutely justified.
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I'll say that I had probably a little to much to drink when I wrote that, Lamotta is definitely an ATG and he does have a good resume. With that said, I stand by my point, people only really remember Lamotta for his fights with Robinson, maybe a few will recognize Cerdan's name. Living in the SRR era doesn't detract from your legacy, probably even gives it a boost, but you can't give a guy credit for losing five times.
beyond that, we can't just act like guys from the past are invincible. Lamotta was a brawler with a chin made of steel and good punching power, but he could be outboxed. There's no need to act like if you just put him in a time machine and took him to the modern day that he would just annihilate the top ten in every division without anybody even being competitive with him.
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I tend to view a fighters record and weigh wins against losses. Not give them extra credit for fighting when other great fighters fought.
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Lamotta got outboxed and outfought by several mediocre fighters and took a dive as well. I don't rate him over Hagler or even Hopkins. His legacy, as you mentioned is 100% dependent on his win over Ray Robinson. Thats a great win, no doubt, but take that away and he wouldn't be remembered any more fondly than say Fritzie Zivic.
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Well, sportsmen are remembered for more than just their records. They're no different to any other historical figures. The cult of personality can't really be ignored.
Based purely on win/loss Arturo Gatti was arguably a contender but never really among the elite in his divisions. But his style and charisma made him a star in Quebec, New Jersey and on TV, and an important one for HBO. People remember those who have that something about them.
All in all win/loss is important, but comparing fighters from different eras is fruitless. You can only fairly look at things in the context of the era someone competes in. And sometimes win/loss is just a sum of the part. LaMotta and Gatti are two examples of guys whose legends are based more on personality, toughness and who they were as much as what they achieved in the ring.
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Agree. And I don't think Lamotta had the most impressive resume, even for his era.
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Raging Bull is probably the main reason people first hear of him. Which if it leads people to dig out fights from that era then that's a bonus. But I imagine a lot of folk have watched the film only.
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Just have to wait and see. A lot of talking from everybody including me. Just noise. Just have to wait. Should know by Superbowl Weekend.
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Floyd fights the best guy who doesn't price himself out of fights.
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Idk why everyone always just brings up that this fight not happening is bad for mayweather's legacy when it's just as bad for pac's legacy too.
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If Pac loses, it's not a big deal. He's already lost before. If Fraud loses, all the boxing forums across the net will crash.
As far as being bad for a legacy though, as long as the fight happens both men will be winners. It's better to be a man, try your hardest, and lose than it is to be a duck and claim you're the best while running from your rival.
It's not bad for either guys legacy in my opinion. Floyd is the greatest fighter of this era and Manny has definitely achieved just as much. Both guys have fought some very good competition and both are credited for keeping boxing alive and thriving. I would not think differently of either guy if this fight doesn't ever get made.
Anybody who thinks Floyd is scared of Manny is crazy. He's always been the favorite to win the fight and as long as he fights his fight he'd probably win pretty easily.
Hands0fStone
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if the pac fight doesnt happen floyd can collect a middleweight belt and also fight khan, pacquiao will fight jessie vargas and rios/bradley/provodnikov (his sparring partner), i dont see how not making this fight will affect his legacy
Tony Manifold
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Pacquiao's legacy is not based on being undefeated. It is as much based on how he fights, his personality, his evolution from a one dimensional fighter with a big left hand to one of the best in the world. Not to mention his epic fights with morales and marquez.
Floyd's is primarily based on being the best and being undefeated. If he doesn't fight the biggest threat at his weight that effects his legacy.
People still bring up Michalzewski when talking about Roy and he wasn't even all that good. Roy fought B-Hop and Toney who were the best of his time yet guys still bring up a protected European champ.
Floyd's is primarily based on being the best and being undefeated. If he doesn't fight the biggest threat at his weight that effects his legacy.
People still bring up Michalzewski when talking about Roy and he wasn't even all that good. Roy fought B-Hop and Toney who were the best of his time yet guys still bring up a protected European champ.
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Michalczewski gets brought up because there's a strong argument for him becoming the lineal champion when he defeated Virgil Hill, which pre-dates Roy's claim.
But there's no denying that Manny will be brought up should Floyd retire without fighting him. People still ask Bowe about Lewis; nobody really seems to ask Lewis too much as they knew Bowe turned it down. Folk still ask Lewis about a Vitali rematch all these years later. Regardless of whether you believe Arum or Floyd or whoever else, public perception is that Floyd could make the fight happen just by clicking his fingers, so it's him they'll ask about it.
And even though Manny isn't what he once was, Ray Leonard openly admits to waiting until he was convinced that Hagler had lost a step before that fight happened. He also refused a rematch until well after Hagler had given up on boxing. So even fighting in 2015 would be enough for most people.
But there's no denying that Manny will be brought up should Floyd retire without fighting him. People still ask Bowe about Lewis; nobody really seems to ask Lewis too much as they knew Bowe turned it down. Folk still ask Lewis about a Vitali rematch all these years later. Regardless of whether you believe Arum or Floyd or whoever else, public perception is that Floyd could make the fight happen just by clicking his fingers, so it's him they'll ask about it.
And even though Manny isn't what he once was, Ray Leonard openly admits to waiting until he was convinced that Hagler had lost a step before that fight happened. He also refused a rematch until well after Hagler had given up on boxing. So even fighting in 2015 would be enough for most people.
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there isn't a "strong argument" about Michalczewski being the lineal champ; he WAS the lineal champ. This isn't really a debatable thing. That's not to say that Michalezewski would have beaten RJJ, but he WAS the lineal champ, that's not disputable unless you can find me an alternate lineal descent.
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Well, I posted "strong argument" just to avoid the issue being debated again. Michalczewski was the lineal champion; The Ring awarded their title to Roy though and some folk - perhaps willfully - confuse theirs as the lineal title.
Tony Manifold
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Darius may have been the lineal champ but Roy was the man. He was the champ and everyone knew it. Darius was a protected fighter who never fought outside of Germany. Roy would have fought him in the US and that was well known at the time. This wasn't a case of him not fighting the other best fighter if his generation but a guy in Germany holding a belt. And people still bring it up today.
Anyone who thinks Floyd not fighting Manny will not affect his future legacy is kidding themselves.
