Jeff Mayweather knows who Floyd is gonna fight

slimpickenz84 said:
Well put. Cheers!

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SkyValley said:
I dunno who this "everyone" is your referring to, but that's not how I remember it. Manny got his fair share of backlash and critisicm for that
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I'm talking about this forum back when that happened.

People were making him out to be a champion of principles.
 
slimpickenz84 said:
Hindsight. At the time, the drug tests were considered extreme and unnecessary. Floyd's fans now counter this with the steep weight penalty stipulation Manny wanted but forget that he at least had a reason for that. He didn't want Floyd to pull what he pulled on Marquez (stay away Sunfish) Floyd didn't have a reason other than rumors his father and uncle started. Easy to say "Well, he should've just taken the tests if he was clean" but the fact was, he didn't have to. He'd never failed a drug test before and NSAC drug testing was the norm. Yes, I know NSAC drug testing is considered sub par but a neutral company could've been chosen. Plus, it was an anti doping agency that Floyd continued to promote and get into the paper. Pac's team had every reason to suspect they'd cook the books for Floyd.

That was the first round of negotiations and nobody blamed Pac for telling Floyd to fuck himself. A fight between them was inevitable and nobody thought it'd go on THIS long. Now, since then, they've gone through multiple rounds of negotiations over the years that never made it as far as the first set of negotiations. Since then, olympic style drug testing has been picked up by more and more fighters including Manny himself. Now, that's the norm. Now that we look back and see how close this fight was the first round of negotiations, some people say it was because "Manny refused drug tests." Which he didn't. He refused FLOYD'S drug tests. Not all drug tests period. Roach assigns blame to them the first time because Manny didn't want to comply with Floyd's demands. But I remember when that was going on. His demands were considered extreme at the time.

Both guys are to blame. But throughout the years Floyd has turned this fight down multiple times, even going so far as going back on things previously agreed upon (like 50/50 split) despite Manny drawing comparable PPV numbers and considered the P4P top guy along with Floyd. (pre Marquez 4) Most place blame on Floyd because of this. Not Manny's likable personality.
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If floyd refused the test people would have ate him up. They didn't with manny, he got the benefit of the doubt with fans and press because he was way more likable. Floyd does not get that.
 
nac386 said:
Manny's legacy is definitely effected. They will always be linked, their legacies intertwined. Same era, similar weights, similar opponents, p4p greats, and a ton of bullshit drama. The initial drug test denial is part of his legacy now.

I agree Floyd will always be rightfully ranked higher amongst ATGs, but will also always shoulder the majority of the criticism. But I do not believe that is mostly based on Manny's "winning smile" as Seano puts it. Floyd has just done a very poor job making his case, and he only has himself to blame for that.

For example, right now he's bashing Arum and basically demanding he step aside, but giving no support for how Arum is a problem. If that's not begging to be accused of ducking then maybe he's just awful at communicating his position to the public.

"The negotiations are supposed to be private" is not a defense for that. Once you make the decision to publically shit on the opposing promoter and blame him entirely for the fight not happening, the negotiations cease to be private and you better have a reason backing that accusation up or people will inevitably think you're bullshitting.

Maybe Floyd's full of it and has no justification, or maybe he is right and just needs a PR person to tell him he's been doing a piss poor job of communicating. But either way it's not just their personalities and likability at this point, it's Floyd's inability (or unwillingness) to formulate a coherent justification for passing the blame on to Arum.

Both these guys have made mistakes and rightfully carry that baggage. Anybody who claims otherwise is selling something.
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I concur doctor
 
nac386 said:
Manny's legacy is definitely effected. They will always be linked, their legacies intertwined. Same era, similar weights, similar opponents, p4p greats, and a ton of bullshit drama. The initial drug test denial is part of his legacy now.

I agree Floyd will always be rightfully ranked higher amongst ATGs, but will also always shoulder the majority of the criticism. But I do not believe that is mostly based on Manny's "winning smile" as Seano puts it. Floyd has just done a very poor job making his case, and he only has himself to blame for that.

For example, right now he's bashing Arum and basically demanding he step aside, but giving no support for how Arum is a problem. If that's not begging to be accused of ducking then maybe he's just awful at communicating his position to the public.

"The negotiations are supposed to be private" is not a defense for that. Once you make the decision to publically shit on the opposing promoter and blame him entirely for the fight not happening, the negotiations cease to be private and you better have a reason backing that accusation up or people will inevitably think you're bullshitting.

Maybe Floyd's full of it and has no justification, or maybe he is right and just needs a PR person to tell him he's been doing a piss poor job of communicating. But either way it's not just their personalities and likability at this point, it's Floyd's inability (or unwillingness) to formulate a coherent justification for passing the blame on to Arum.

Both these guys have made mistakes and rightfully carry that baggage. Anybody who claims otherwise is selling something.
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He has maintained that negotiations are ongoing and hasn't affirmed that Arum has to step aside. Lately, the only person I've heard make that claim is Alex Ariza (and Ariza has said so many different things and had his opinion change so many times, I hardly think it matters). There is enough evidence out there to assert that Arum has done a lot to complicate the fight getting made (based on the negotiations after Marquez/Pac 3 and Mayweather/Ortiz or as recently as him saying the May 2nd date was some affront to Mexicans). Should Mayweather refusing to work with Arum outright be defended? No, I don't think so. Of course, that's not what he is refusing to do right now as negotiations have been confirmed by both camps and Arum is an integral part of them.

In terms of the PR argument, Mayweather can never and will never win that argument. Essentially all the information about the first fight falling through is out there. Pacquiao turned it down because he didn't want such stringent testing (such testing has in recent years become a normal demand in prize fighting, and it has been adopted as a demand by Manny himself). Public opinion didn't side with Mayweather that time, why would it side with him in negotiations where the public knows virtually nothing about what has actually gone on? Mayweather's marketability and ability to draw viewers is largely based on being the villain. That doesn't lend itself to winning a PR battle with a seemingly humble, always smiling boy scout. One would hope that actual boxing historians (the ones who will be writing about all of this in 20+ years) won't be subject to the same biases that define so many fans in both camps. Of course, one hopes that a lot more actual information about negotiations comes out by then, and also, most importantly, that such talk is not of primary importance because they will have actually fought.
 
ProBoxingInsidr said:
you realize that jeff and i own the site that the interview goes on. we are actually partners. we had a good laugh about it today. and if he didnt like something, he would have told me.

on a side note, in 5 years we have worked together, this is the first time he wouldnt even tell me something off the record. that alone makes me think the manny fight gets made. i think if it were cotto or something, he would have told me. hope i am right
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very well, I apologize, I had no right to call you an asshole and didn't know that you and Jeff had a good relationship.

If what you say is true, then it sounds like a good sign for pac/mayweather
 
The monstrosity that was the "No More Ducking..." thread is finally dead.
 
ironfist05 said:
very well, I apologize, I had no right to call you an asshole and didn't know that you and Jeff had a good relationship.

If what you say is true, then it sounds like a good sign for pac/mayweather
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yea, if you look at the site where its posted, you will see jeff's name is actually on the site. and i am an ashole, so its ok. definitely hope we get the pac/may fight. like i said, jeff refuses to tell me anything and that makes me think it might happen because he would likely tell me iff it was gonna be anyone else. but i have given up trying to actually guess.

the other local media seem to think it will be for floyds attempt at 50-0 (if he remains undefeated) because it coincides with the new arena opening up on the strip and they need something huge to open it with
 
That massive thread was weighing the forum down.
 
slimpickenz84 said:
Hindsight. At the time, the drug tests were considered extreme and unnecessary. Floyd's fans now counter this with the steep weight penalty stipulation Manny wanted but forget that he at least had a reason for that. He didn't want Floyd to pull what he pulled on Marquez (stay away Sunfish) Floyd didn't have a reason other than rumors his father and uncle started. Easy to say "Well, he should've just taken the tests if he was clean" but the fact was, he didn't have to. He'd never failed a drug test before and NSAC drug testing was the norm. Yes, I know NSAC drug testing is considered sub par but a neutral company could've been chosen. Plus, it was an anti doping agency that Floyd continued to promote and get into the paper. Pac's team had every reason to suspect they'd cook the books for Floyd.

That was the first round of negotiations and nobody blamed Pac for telling Floyd to fuck himself. A fight between them was inevitable and nobody thought it'd go on THIS long. Now, since then, they've gone through multiple rounds of negotiations over the years that never made it as far as the first set of negotiations. Since then, olympic style drug testing has been picked up by more and more fighters including Manny himself. Now, that's the norm. Now that we look back and see how close this fight was the first round of negotiations, some people say it was because "Manny refused drug tests." Which he didn't. He refused FLOYD'S drug tests. Not all drug tests period. Roach assigns blame to them the first time because Manny didn't want to comply with Floyd's demands. But I remember when that was going on. His demands were considered extreme at the time.

Both guys are to blame. But throughout the years Floyd has turned this fight down multiple times, even going so far as going back on things previously agreed upon (like 50/50 split) despite Manny drawing comparable PPV numbers and considered the P4P top guy along with Floyd. (pre Marquez 4) Most place blame on Floyd because of this. Not Manny's likable personality.
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this is how i remember it as well...it was only about the cut-off date nothing else
 
Seano said:
I think its really time for people to stop pretending that this fight doesn't happen because of Floyd. I don't really think that that opinion can be supported with any sort of facts.
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Which can be said literally every time except for right now

It's pretty insane how people can blame Manny for the hold up right now.

Previously, the two times this fight was close, Mayweather put down an offer and the Pac camp made a counter offer that Mayweather didn't take.

NOW Pac's camp made an offer and Mayweather's camp is making less-than-a-fucking-counter-off that Pac isn't taking.

So either the first two times were Mayweather's fault and this time it is Pac's fault, or reverse.

The fanboyism on this board is crazy.
 
Jukai said:
Which can be said literally every time except for right now

It's pretty insane how people can blame Manny for the hold up right now.

Previously, the two times this fight was close, Mayweather put down an offer and the Pac camp made a counter offer that Mayweather didn't take.

NOW Pac's camp made an offer and Mayweather's camp is making less-than-a-fucking-counter-off that Pac isn't taking.

So either the first two times were Mayweather's fault and this time it is Pac's fault, or reverse.

The fanboyism on this board is crazy.
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I don't blame Manny one bit. I did the first time around, sure, because Pac DID fuck that up. I did when he fought Clottey but thats when I thought that the man had some say in who he fights.

Its fairly clear that the stumbling block is Bob Arum.
 
slimpickenz84 said:
Hindsight. At the time, the drug tests were considered extreme and unnecessary. Floyd's fans now counter this with the steep weight penalty stipulation Manny wanted but forget that he at least had a reason for that. He didn't want Floyd to pull what he pulled on Marquez (stay away Sunfish) Floyd didn't have a reason other than rumors his father and uncle started. Easy to say "Well, he should've just taken the tests if he was clean" but the fact was, he didn't have to. He'd never failed a drug test before and NSAC drug testing was the norm. Yes, I know NSAC drug testing is considered sub par but a neutral company could've been chosen. Plus, it was an anti doping agency that Floyd continued to promote and get into the paper. Pac's team had every reason to suspect they'd cook the books for Floyd.

That was the first round of negotiations and nobody blamed Pac for telling Floyd to fuck himself. A fight between them was inevitable and nobody thought it'd go on THIS long. Now, since then, they've gone through multiple rounds of negotiations over the years that never made it as far as the first set of negotiations. Since then, olympic style drug testing has been picked up by more and more fighters including Manny himself. Now, that's the norm. Now that we look back and see how close this fight was the first round of negotiations, some people say it was because "Manny refused drug tests." Which he didn't. He refused FLOYD'S drug tests. Not all drug tests period. Roach assigns blame to them the first time because Manny didn't want to comply with Floyd's demands. But I remember when that was going on. His demands were considered extreme at the time.

Both guys are to blame. But throughout the years Floyd has turned this fight down multiple times, even going so far as going back on things previously agreed upon (like 50/50 split) despite Manny drawing comparable PPV numbers and considered the P4P top guy along with Floyd. (pre Marquez 4) Most place blame on Floyd because of this. Not Manny's likable personality.
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I used to lurk at maxboxing when the first round of negotiations were ongoing and the weight stipulation was heavily criticised over there at the time of the negotiations.

I didn't post here until much later so I can't comment.
 
1neomonkey said:
But not even this is accurate. The first time around Pacquiao DID agree to Floyd's drug tests, what wasn't agreed upon was a 2 week window prior to the fight.

Not agreeing to a small little window is not the same as refusing a drug test. And besides, no person could get away with taking steroids two weeks prior to a fight and passing a test afterwards. Obviously your testosterone levels will show up as abnormal within that time frame.
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Victor Conte disagrees and he seemed pretty good at getting multiple people through Olympic style testing. He said he laughed when Mosley told him boxing's drug testing rules.
 


I don't know if Floyd is scared, but I truly believe that he doens't want to box Pacquiao.
 
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