"Je Suis Charlie" and France's Free Speech Hypocrisy

[Rvd Slmr]

I love how people keep claiming that Sin

 

[Gervinho]

I love how people keep claiming that Sin

 

[Islam Imamate]

Well, the other angle is that these laws against nazi speech are enforced as often because of *anti-muslim* neo-nazi speech as *anti-semitic* neo-nazi speech.

It's the nazism that tends to get you in trouble. Muslims are often quick to cry 'double standards for Jews,' but seem never to remember the times when anti-immigrant speakers are hit for their speech against Muslims. Example, Ms. Brigitte Bardot:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...atred-claiming-Muslims-destroying-France.html

I agree with Daveb above that these 'hate speech' laws are regressive and should be thrown out. Unfortunately they remain wildly popular with the governing forces -- creating harmony amongst the masses and such.

At least with Germany itself, on the other hand, I can understand why they'd make a special exception for nazism and Holocaust denial; there's a unique urgency there. In other European nations, it seems like it helps legitimize something that deserves open contempt rather than suppression by state action.

I'll be honest, I just skimmed through the pictures in that article.

Spoiler

She's a can compared to America's Hollywood beauties from the 50s though.

The gas chambers is a myth, just like the turning jews skins to lampshades and turning them into soap.

Who puts swimming pools, let inmates have orchestras, Theater Plays, Daycare centers, Brothels, etc in "Death Camps". Theres a reason its a crime to talk about the innaccuracies of Holocaust, The truth will be out..

Any links to support these claims? I've often heard the soap and lampshade claim is false but the gas chambers being false and swimming pools is certainly a little more controversial.

You dont understand, who has these things in a "Death Camp"

Maybe the people running the Death Camp? What if those facilities were in the barracks so the guards can have fun on their down time?

If I was throwing Jews into gas chambers and ovens I'd want a swimming pool to relax in at the end of the day.

 

[Rvd Slmr]

We know that, the point is those laws protects one group of people far more than others. And that group of people are very powerful in france

They protect any victim of recognized war crimes. IIRC it's now also illegal to deny the Armenian genocide. People who are sentenced for hatred toward Jews never attacked them as a religious group, you are totally free to say that the Torah is a bunch of crap and that rabbinic cult is bullshit. The law works when people attack Jews as a race and as a people (even if it's technically not). Saying that hate speach toward Arabs and Roms is neglected compared to hate speech toward Jews (as a race/people) is just not supported by evidence.

By the way I don't deny that Jews in France have much more power and importance than what they should compared to their very limited demographic weight. Still, comparing how hatespeech is treaty for Muslims and Jews as a race/people makes no sense.

 

[Hollywood Nicky]

So, another example of:

'You can criticize Islam but not jews/blacks, and that's a double standard'?

pretty much, happens all the time, even here.

 

[Hollywood Nicky]

As a jew I think people should have the freedom to deny the holocaust or anything else. Free speech for everybody, arresting a comedian is absolute bullshit

i think denying it is just kind of silly, but i think people should have the right.

 

[IIIIIIII]

if europe wanted to atone for the holocaust, they should have found land in europe, and not on land that was already occupied by people in the middle east. europe fucked the middle east with the creation of israel.

 

[IDL]

if europe wanted to atone for the holocaust, they should have found land in europe, and not on land that was already occupied by people in the middle east. europe fucked the middle east with the creation of israel.

Israel was already in the works before that happened. Zionism predates WWII

Germany even had a transfer agreement setup with the Zionist organizations to transfer Jews and their assets into Palestine.

 

[IIIIIIII]

Israel was already in the works before that happened. Zionism predates WWII

Germany even had a transfer agreement setup with the Zionist organizations to transfer Jews and their assets into Palestine.

and this was all okay-ed by the palestinians living on that land?

 

[jeffk]

I still do not understand why people cannot see there is difference in allowing poking fun at religious doctrine and being anti-Muslim or anti-Semitic.

Yes, there are people who are anti-Muslim. There have been attacks on Muslims since the terrorist shooting in Paris.

This is a different matter than drawing pictures of an unprovable Prophet.

 

[jeffk]

Good article - http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/lliana-bird/charlie-hebdo_b_6461030.html

Charlie Hebdo: They're Not Racist Just Because You're Offended

freedom of speech is not absolute, no one sane would suggest it is. The laws of the land lay out what is and is not permissible. Defamation, incitement of violence and hate speech are just a few examples of where what you say crosses a line. But in France, religion is fair game.

Incitement of violence against Jews, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, atheists etc is not ok (or legal). But criticism and mockery of Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism or atheism and the ideas they represent is. People have rights. Ideas do not. And the law is there to punish those who cross that line.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Defamation, incitement of violence and hate speech are just a few examples of where what you say crosses a line.

What's hate speech? Saying you hate some group or behavior? Somehow you can demand only nice things be said while pretending free speech exists? Is that how sane people think? :icon_lol:

 

[IDL]

and this was all okay-ed by the palestinians living on that land?

I doubt it. I was just addressing the idea that Israel in the middle east was an atonement for WWII. I'd say it helped the cause though.

 

[jeffk]

I have already said on this thread a couple times that I think hate speech laws are often counter productive and backfire. They sometimes draw attention to dickwads and give them more attention than they would get without such laws.

The point in the article is that is where France draws the line. They do not allow hate speech against people but do allow free speech for discussion of religious doctrine.

 

[Like A Bas]

He wrote "

 

[James Keith]

Good article - http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/lliana-bird/charlie-hebdo_b_6461030.html

Charlie Hebdo: They're Not Racist Just Because You're Offended

freedom of speech is not absolute, no one sane would suggest it is.

I could list sane people all day who suggest it is.

 

[Joe_Armstrong]

So you find it odd that someone who spreads
stories supporting murder is being arrested ?

 

[Joe_Armstrong]

The gas chambers is a myth

Don't know if sarcastic or dumb.

 

[Tbone9]

The gas chambers is a myth, just like the turning jews skins to lampshades and turning them into soap.

Who puts swimming pools, let inmates have orchestras, Theater Plays, Daycare centers, Brothels, etc in "Death Camps". Theres a reason its a crime to talk about the innaccuracies of Holocaust, The truth will be out..

Ah, it's like that.... ok. Who put the numbered tattoo on my wife's grandfather's arm? And what about the two bullet holes he had from when he was shot on a death march from Auschwitz? Maybe they were for his entry into the swimming pool?

Actually, there's little point in engaging you in conversation so you have a nice day.

 

[Thames]

We have the strongest free speech laws, for sure. It's actually kind of amazing, and I wish more people knew how special the US is in this regard.

Where we fall flat, unfortunately, is in *freedom of the press*. That's where we get outpaced by many other countries.

It's actually kind of amazing. I have no idea why we have these hate-speech laws in 2015 (short of Germany perhaps). Not only that, most European countries also have laws against blasphemy. Though they de facto are never used (except for in Ireland), they're still in the books.. We should really follow the example set by the U.S in that regard.

Where you also fall flat is how scared you are of nudity and curse words, censoring those things are also an U.S phenomenon. I'm sitting as an adult, watching an adult tv-show like The Daily Show, when suddenly I hear the word "fuck" being censored. What the fuck. Or the censoring of female nipples, what is up with that? And don't get me started on the rules here on Sherdog. Ra****.
Just needed to get that out.