Japanese Jujutsu vs. Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

[matthew72]

So what is your angle then?
You are endorsing that getting your blue belt online is the way to go!

I've never met the guys in the video but I trained for years (in person) with a multi-world champion in BJJ.

But do you really think you comment is worth the digital ink it is printed in? I mean it has nothing to do with the topic, and it's clear I've proved my point, even the Gracies agree that BJJ is useless as a street martial art for fighting in the street and you need to learn the "street" BJJ which, what do you know, looks exactly like Japanese Jiu Jitsu.

So what do you have when you learn how to fight in the street with BJJ? You have JAPANESE JIU JITSU. (which originated 2,000 years before BJJ)

Example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltBSoh6wuwU

Technique shown is waki-gatame(Rokkyo) from Japanese Jiu Jitsu, except the BJJ guy in the video executed it wrong and that's why the guy escaped.

Here's the correct way to do the Waki-Gatame: http://youtu.be/oaLsRR8rQe4

If you research the comparisons between BJJ and JJJ you'll probably find that BJJ is a new name to an old system combined with super "hype" and aggressive marketing (using the UFC as the springboard) and now some of the Gracies are marketing it even further by saying you need to also learn "street" BJJ in addition to sport BJJ (which makes sense) but what you are really learning with the street BJJ is Japanese Jiu Jitsu disguised under a different name with a $200/m pricetag.

Read-up my friends!

 

[lechien]

Still don't get your angle.
I know some jjj that fought vale Tudo.
Then you mentioned renee that looks down on sport but then quickly put his sport success.
You are all over the place.

 

[jujijimmy]

The gracies are putting down Bjj to sell their gjj which is more about self defense. Your using this to put down Bjj. Very sad.

 

[matthew72]

Still don't get your angle.
I know some jjj that fought vale Tudo.
Then you mentioned renee that looks down on sport but then quickly put his sport success.
You are all over the place.

My point is that BJJ (as taught in most schools as a sport) is not effective outside of the ring. My second point is that even JJJ guys and Judo guys are starting to beat BJJ guys in the ring now that the UFC isn't so staged as a marketing tool to sell BJJ studios and make the Gracies rich.

I used several examples to back up my claims such as a JJJ guy recently beating the all time best BJJ Gracie family member in the ring and a MMA world champion nearly getting killed in a street fight. I used their own testimonials from videos to prove my claims. Then people didn't believe me so I found where the Gracie family themselves admit that BJJ is mostly taught as a sport and is not an effective martial art or self defense on the street unless you learn the secret "street" BJJ techniques.

What you have here is more proof of the BJJ "hype" and in this case their hype is turning back on itself, eating it's own hype, just to make a buck. Because what you get when you add in the BJJ "street" techniques is traditional Japanese Jiu Jitsu or even Aikido.

This reminds me that so far I see UFC/MMA/BJJ as primarily a money making machine and the first UFC's are full of baloney saying that the worlds top fighters in all arts participated. Yes there were good athletes from different martial arts, but in no way did any of the top Karate, Kung Fu, Tai Chi, Chinese Martial Art grand masters participate. Most people are only scratching the surface of what real martial power is and confuse all the "wrestling" in MMA as the ultimate demonstration of martial power when all you really have are, on average, American brown belts in watered down Judo mixing boxing and wrestling.

The only real grand master that I've seen enter the ring is Huan Shen Shyan. It's an amazing story because the guy was 60 and beat the reigning Asian champion of wrestling who was in his 20's in a charity match.

At the age of 60 Huang Sheng Shyan again demonstrated his abilities in taijiquan by defeating Liao Kuang-Cheng, the Asian champion wrestler 26 throws to 0 in a fund raising event in Kuching Malaysia.
http://youtu.be/XQcrOm6ATzM


BJJ and MMA is talking to a bubble of Americanized/westernized sports fans who believe everything they see on TV. Authentic Asian martial arts are not taught, but in secret, to a select one or two (even in Asia) for each teacher. You all should look into it because the reality is much better than the fake bullshido that you see in the UFC. Some common myth that the western martial arts bubble readily believe: 1) Bruce Lee was a grand-master level MA - Grand Masters are at the level beyond belief and aren't doing kicks and punches, they truly beat you before you even come to the door. 2) MMA/BJJ is the pinacle of martial arts skill and ability - Even the Gracies admit this is not true.

Another example is Bruce Frantiz who is a martial arts pioneer, who was studying mma and traditional asian martial arts in the 1960's. He started with Karate and received black belt level with other arts too. Now, Frantiz has not acieved "Grand Master" level that I know of, but he was a good fighter in asia and a "bone breaker", but when Frantiz met a real grand master the truth about martial arts power and skill is revelead.

"Liu was cordial to Frantzis at their first meeting. Frantzis realized immediately that the 20 years he had spent immersed in the martial arts and meditation would only serve as a foundation to studying with this man. Well over twice Frantzis' age and less than half his size, Liu was able to pick Frantzis up and move him any way he wished. Frantzis, on the other hand, was literally unable to move even Liu's little finger. Frantzis, who was considered to be a "young master" in Hong Kong and Taiwan, was duly impressed. Liu told him, "There is more to having energy than just being big."

http://www.energyarts.com/bruces-frantzis

So, for those who don't like to read. A real grand master made a pro fighter and martial arts "master" into a verible "little baby". We should all hope to achieve that level some day.

But back to the BJJ/MMA topic at hand... even the Gracies admit that it's not a valid self defense on the street and now that people have seen the ground fighting they know how to deal with it so, naturally, it's not even as effective in the ring.

 

[robotsonic]

LOL, wut?

It's not as effective in the ring because everyone in the UFC trains it all the time, you can't learn it by just watching the UFC, you have to actually go and train it regularly to be able to deal with it.

Also bringing out the whole 'Grandmaster on a mountain in China' story, LMAO! Let me guess, are you Frank Dux? The martial arts world has moved on buddy, hell even in China most guys are going to tell you that Wushu is essentially dancing and that a San Shou/Sanda guy would annihilate them in an actual fight.

You seem like one of these LARPer types, have you ever actually been to Asia or do you just have this crazy idea of ninja schools in the mountains and dues fighting drunken style on poles or something?

 

[matthew72]

The gracies are putting down Bjj to sell their gjj which is more about self defense. Your using this to put down Bjj. Very sad.

You haven't done your homework.

BJJ got started by putting down other martial arts and staging "faked" UFC matches with fake "masters" from other arts to then sell BJJ as the "most effective form of self defense in the world." When in fact the UFC was just a bunch of student level fighters from other arts. Now since the Gracies can't even beat an American special forces/Japanese Jiu Jitus black belt in the UFC (see Roger Gracie's fight record) they are starting to find another "angle" to hype their BJJ/GJJ as the best street self defense.

I'm not putting down BJJ, simply stating some things that are obvious to me but not to others who think that MMA/BJJ is the real deal. Everything has it's use and I practice BJJ. It's great to get strong and practice full force wrestling type attacks and defense. You don't get to do full force very often in other martial arts. BJJ sparring/Rolling is super fun! But I also know that BJJ teaches some very bad habits that can get you killed in a real fight (outside of the ring without a referee to protect you) and is not good for fighting on the street or as a practical self defense. I've provided ample proof of this and even video testimony of this from the Gracies themselves.

Grab a book my friends!

 

[robotsonic]

Also Qi is bullshit, yeah I said it. Weirdos like you seem to have this archaic, outdated, patronising fantasy vision of China/Japan, the actual fact is that if you'd ever been there you'd know the vast majority of people don't believe in this hocus pocus nonsense, they consider it farcical. Seriously, they are so over it, they would be embarrassed that they are seen this way by Westerners. Go ask any Chinese fight fan about Wushu, they'll tell you it's a joke.

If your average Chinese guy wants to learn how to fight he's more likely to check out the local boxing gym than joining the fucking Shaolin temple.

 

[matthew72]

LOL, wut?

It's not as effective in the ring because everyone in the UFC trains it all the time, you can't learn it by just watching the UFC, you have to actually go and train it regularly to be able to deal with it.

Also bringing out the whole 'Grandmaster on a mountain in China' story, LMAO! Let me guess, are you Frank Dux? The martial arts world has moved on buddy, hell even in China most guys are going to tell you that Wushu is essentially dancing and that a San Shou/Sanda guy would annihilate them in an actual fight.

You seem like one of these LARPer types, have you ever actually been to Asia or do you just have this crazy idea of ninja schools in the mountains and dues fighting drunken style on poles or something?

WUT?

lol

Martial arts hasn't moved anywhere. The guys in china who are saying this haven't even met a real grand master in person or they wouldn't being saying that. You also havnt met one either or even a teacher who is on his way to being one. You are the equivolent of the arrogant white guy (not saying you are white or black or anything) who thinks he knows everything about martial arts but in reality just pays $ every month to train at the local McDojo. It's really not impressive in the big picture.

I posted a real video of probably the only REAL ring match between an AUTHENTIC grand master. The MMA fighter was in his 20's and got shut out 26-0 (twenty-six to ZERO) by a 60 year old granpa with no hair left! lol So much for ring fighters. This is the only real authentic video of this kind of contest that I know to exist. The other videos you can find are totally bogus videos of low level (not even students) where the Gracies fakes the whole thing to "MAKE MONEY"!!!

The other interesting thing is that real martial arts have been decreasing in ability, generation by generation for perhaps thousands of years... The guy in the video who whooped ass (Huang Sheng Shyan), is not as good as his teacher, who was not as good as his teacher and so on. There is a much bigger picture here than most of you care to think abou, or perhaps can comprehend.

 

[matthew72]

Also Qi is bullshit, yeah I said it. Weirdos like you seem to have this archaic, outdated, patronising fantasy vision of China/Japan, the actual fact is that if you'd ever been there you'd know the vast majority of people don't believe in this hocus pocus nonsense, they consider it farcical. Seriously, they are so over it, they would be embarrassed that they are seen this way by Westerners. Go ask any Chinese fight fan about Wushu, they'll tell you it's a joke.

If your average Chinese guy wants to learn how to fight he's more likely to check out the local boxing gym than joining the fucking Shaolin temple.

That's the way it's supposed to be, by design. The real "grand-masters" sometimes don't teach anyone, sometimes just one, but they don't open up chains of McDojos and the real martial artist knows what is real. The fakes, fan-boys, chartlitans, hulk hogan fans, and MMA fans simply don't know.

Here is a good video that might show you how stupid the real teachers see you and the other MMA fan boys.

This is a coold documentary series about a MMA fighter from Denmark who was a Karate full contact European champion. He went to Japan when we has 18 to learn real Karate. The documentary is 20 years later. He's retired and an active MMA coach. He's exploring more traditional martial arts in Japan through his documentary series and in this episode he goes in search of the roots of Karate. What he finds is that he had been training to win matches and in his whole life and for the last 20 years of Karate training that he had not been training the real Karate. Even his old teammate in Karate who is the top Karate fighter of all time has changed and said he was wrong: "Karate is about kata, not about winning matches." Then the westerner goes to Okinawa where he encounters Okinawan styles of Karate, which is more like Kung Fu, and starts to really see what he's been missing. The westerner can do things like break multiple baseball bats with his kicks and is pretty big and strong, but throughout the documentary series get's beat by little Japanese guys in Judo, Aikido, and other. He simply has never been exposed to the real deal because he was focused only on obvious strenth, not the real authentic martial arts. Even in Japan its not easy to find the real Karate or the real martial art.

When the student is ready he finds the teacher.

http://youtu.be/BLibKL7OzDY

 

[Einarr]

LOL! What is this guy smoking?

 

[matthew72]

LOL! What is this guy smoking?

are your martial arts as good as your one-liners?

 

[robotsonic]

matthew72 are yours? Perhaps you could go over to Bullshido and set up a challenge with one of them guys if you really want to show the power of your martial arts, you will actually get takers over there, most people on f12 just find people like you hilarious.

 

[matthew72]

matthew72 are yours? Perhaps you could go over to Bullshido and set up a challenge with one of them guys if you really want to show the power of your martial arts, you will actually get takers over there, most people on f12 just find people like you hilarious.

Are yours? lol nany nany boo boo (you sound like a 4 year old)

That's why most people will spend their whole lives training BJJ (or another McDojo martial art) just to get their face bloodied in a bar fight, by an average Joe. (see the Gracie video for a real life example of the purple belt in BJJ who this happened to because he, like you and the other comedians, don't know squat.) Real martial artists don't fight, they train not to fight.

http://youtu.be/e864iZ4sB8Q

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Are yours? lol nany nany boo boo (you sound like a 4 year old)

That's why most people will spend their whole lives training BJJ (or another McDojo martial art) just to get their face bloodied in a bar fight, by an average Joe. (see the Gracie video for a real life example of the purple belt in BJJ who this happened to because he, like you and the other comedians, don't know squat.) Real martial artists don't fight, they train not to fight.

http://youtu.be/e864iZ4sB8Q

hmmm let me see... real martial artist dont fight, they train not to fight, but jjj is the deadly shit, train for fighting only, then I have to ask you, if you dont fight, and train not to fight? why on fucking earth are you training every day if you aint going to fight anyways? you know, mma could be a good testing ground for your deadly skills?

 

[robotsonic]

The most perfect martial art is standing deadly still at all times for your entire life. Anything approximating physical exercise should be avoided at all costs, lest people think you are training for 'fighting'

 

[BJJ_Rage]

That's the way it's supposed to be, by design. The real "grand-masters" sometimes don't teach anyone, sometimes just one, but they don't open up chains of McDojos and the real martial artist knows what is real. The fakes, fan-boys, chartlitans, hulk hogan fans, and MMA fans simply don't know.

Here is a good video that might show you how stupid the real teachers see you and the other MMA fan boys.

This is a coold documentary series about a MMA fighter from Denmark who was a Karate full contact European champion. He went to Japan when we has 18 to learn real Karate. The documentary is 20 years later. He's retired and an active MMA coach. He's exploring more traditional martial arts in Japan through his documentary series and in this episode he goes in search of the roots of Karate. What he finds is that he had been training to win matches and in his whole life and for the last 20 years of Karate training that he had not been training the real Karate. Even his old teammate in Karate who is the top Karate fighter of all time has changed and said he was wrong: "Karate is about kata, not about winning matches." Then the westerner goes to Okinawa where he encounters Okinawan styles of Karate, which is more like Kung Fu, and starts to really see what he's been missing. The westerner can do things like break multiple baseball bats with his kicks and is pretty big and strong, but throughout the documentary series get's beat by little Japanese guys in Judo, Aikido, and other. He simply has never been exposed to the real deal because he was focused only on obvious strenth, not the real authentic martial arts. Even in Japan its not easy to find the real Karate or the real martial art.

When the student is ready he finds the teacher.

http://youtu.be/BLibKL7OzDY

holy crap, this guy is truly insane...

just a question, what the fuck are all those kyokusin japanese k1 fighters training in japan?

 

[matthew72]

hmmm let me see... real martial artist dont fight, they train not to fight, but jjj is the deadly shit, train for fighting only, then I have to ask you, if you dont fight, and train not to fight? why on fucking earth are you training every day if you aint going to fight anyways? you know, mma could be a good testing ground for your deadly skills?

I train BJJ and MMA with world champions (have for years)... I don't consider them real martial arts, but they are fun, I respect them for what they are, and they have their place.

>mma could be a good testing ground for your deadly skills?
Did you read anything that's been said? No serious martial artists ever enter the UFC. No real MA wants to fight. The reason you train MA is to avoid fights. Watch the videos I've posted a few times all the way through, when your caffeine/sugar high goes away.

 

[matthew72]

The most perfect martial art is standing deadly still at all times for your entire life. Anything approximating physical exercise should be avoided at all costs, lest people think you are training for 'fighting'

and your point? i think you have no clue about martial arts.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

I train BJJ and MMA with world champions (have for years)... I don't consider them real martial arts, but they are fun, I respect them for what they are, and they have their place.

>mma could be a good testing ground for your deadly skills?
Did you read anything that's been said? No serious martial artists ever enter the UFC. No real MA wants to fight. The reason you train MA is to avoid fights. Watch the videos I've posted a few times all the way through, when your caffeine/sugar high goes away.

The problem is, MMA is a sport, not a street fight....

you train bjj? where do you train at? whats your belt? whats your lineage?

you train with pro mma fighters? do you think you can take them in a street fight?

 

[matthew72]

holy crap, this guy is truly insane...

just a question, what the fuck are all those kyokusin japanese k1 fighters training in japan?

they train McDojo karate... in the video the champion of all-time the full contact Karate says that he had been wrong all along and their is a higher training to Karate beyond the ring.