Elections James Carville on the state of the Democrat party

[Cajun]

Eat a dick, new guy. And the message is either right or wrong, doesn't matter who's delivering it. If Carville tells you that the sky is red and I say it's blue, I'm still right, despite his credentials. Look, I'll give Carville credit for what he's done in the past and he has a cool accent and all that, but if he's giving politicians the same advice he gave them 20-30 years ago, then he's doing them a disservice. The game done changed.

James wants to beat Trump. He sees running Bernie as a risk and I think he is not alone. A Jewish guy from Brooklyn with a socialist background. I don't think he does well. James looks at relatively low voter turnout and is wondering if people are excited enough about the candidates in general. But my thoughts are pretty well lined up with fawlty

 

[Hollywood Jack]

You dodged the whole post by copping out over my sarcasm. Your pussy hurting this morning?

I didn't dodge shit. Warren took their winning advice and, surprise, surprise, she fucking lost, just like Hillary. These dinosaur advisors don't know shit about what's going on on the ground level right now. Obama beat Hillary by pretending to be a populist and then Trump did the same thing to her again, and her stupid advisers never learn from it. Bernie is the real deal which is why Trump wants them to pick Biden and not Bernie.

 

[AlexDB9]

For the longest time Republicans were infamous for being “pussies” and “pushovers”. It’s funny that it took a 90’s Dem like Trump to get Republicans to grab their balls and move forward

I myself would love to see the Democratic Party return to its 90’s greatness. The problem is (as I’ve said before) the party is split and shattered into maybe 3-4 groups. That won’t win you anything. I’d very much like to see a huge defeat at the hands of Trump which would push for a revival of the party. The first thing they need to do is kick out these so called “socialists” and let them cry in the corner under their own “party”

 

[Hollywood Jack]

James wants to beat Trump. He sees running Bernie as a risk and I think he is not alone. A Jewish guy from Brooklyn with a socialist background. I don't think he does well. James looks at relatively low voter turnout and is wondering if people are excited enough about the candidates in general. But my thoughts are pretty well lined up with fawlty

The triangulating corporate centrist shit worked in the 90s. It doesn't work now. Bernie is the Trump of the left in the sense that he can rally the base and bring in new voters and disgruntled, disenfranchised, disaffected voters.

 

[Fawlty]

James wants to beat Trump. He sees running Bernie as a risk and I think he is not alone. A Jewish guy from Brooklyn with a socialist background. I don't think he does well. James looks at relatively low voter turnout and is wondering if people are excited enough about the candidates in general. But my thoughts are pretty well lined up with fawlty

If Carville is worried about voter turnout, he'd be happy to learn that primary turnout doesn't predict general election winners, and only weakly (at best) predicts general election turnout.

 

[Cajun]

The triangulating corporate centrist shit worked in the 90s. It doesn't work now. Bernie is the Trump of the left in the sense that he can rally the base and bring in new voters and disgruntled, disenfranchised, disaffected voters.

A large percentage of voters are older voters. They weren't born in the 90s and are likely not to turn out in large numbers. I've been wrong before as I was with Trump getting the nod in the primary and in the general election. You are right about dems looking for new blood and I hope revolution happens on both sides. But I doubt Bernie will energize the older crowd.

 

[AnGrYcRoW]

He's not talking about it in any sensible way. His solution to everything is just throwing money at it, and most people are aware it's their money he's talking about.

Maybe you haven't noticed but Trump is running record deficits and debt , he just throwing money at different places .

Bernie can just redirect where the deficit spending goes .

To be clear I don't agree with running deficits in a booming economy , it's madness imo but that's where we are .

 

[HereticBD]

The triangulating corporate centrist shit worked in the 90s. It doesn't work now. Bernie is the Trump of the left in the sense that he can rally the base and bring in new voters and disgruntled, disenfranchised, disaffected voters.

The problem with Bernie, is that his policy proposals have not really been tested in an election, and socialism has never been popular. He may bring in new voters, yes, but he also may turn a hell of a lot more off, because he's so far off the status quo that a lot of Americans are just fine with, and don't want a big unpredictable drastic change. They're not all poor and suffering like Bernie would want you to believe.

He's a big gamble if anything. He's not a slam dunk by any means.

 

[Cajun]

If Carville is worried about voter turnout, he'd be happy to learn that primary turnout doesn't predict general election winners, and only weakly (at best) predicts general election turnout.

Hes looking at past primaries. He wasnt the only one in the news bringing it up last night. But yeah, I dont know how they track. The same group that turned out for Obama and didnt for Hillary... I think the same scenario will be for bernie. But I dont think he does as well as she did

 

[AlexDB9]

The triangulating corporate centrist shit worked in the 90s. It doesn't work now. Bernie is the Trump of the left in the sense that he can rally the base and bring in new voters and disgruntled, disenfranchised, disaffected voters.

Here’s the truth about doormat for you @VivaRevolution and that tatamos guy I forgot the name of Edit: @tatanos

He’s a radical who’s been soften up over the years. He hasn’t yet denounced his love for the CCCP, Cuba, Venezuela, etc. He hasn’t denounced his own campaign managers who tout gulags and re-education. He is politician who has done nothing of worth in 30 years. The man starts his “rallies” by letting people come up there and blame race for America’s troubles and call for the banning of CBP and ICE...open borders if you will.....

Lieawatha made the mistake of putting numbers behind the face and her “magic” has faded. Doormat hasn’t yet had the chance to do it, you see when people hear the numbers needed for his lunatic “plans” the tingle you think people get will go away. There’s no “revolution” and no “new voters” will be rallied. Reality is a tough pill to swallow

You simply have a geriatric communist with heart problems who in a sea of lunacy might be the least to lose....against Trump in a general it’s a bloodbath and the DNC is smart enough to know it. It’s funny because it’s people like you who have the DNC between a rock and a hard place. You nominate doormat and half the country doesn’t vote/votes Trump. Doormat gets shafted again and the bros try to destroy the already weak Democratic Party.....what a time

 

[Fawlty]

Hes looking at past primaries. He wasnt the only one in the news bringing it up last night. But yeah, I dont know how they track. The same group that turned out for Obama and didnt for Hillary... I think the same scenario will be for bernie.

I'm worried about that too. Not sure how he'll do with black people either.

One thing Bernie has going for him is that old moderate white people (especially men) like him. It sounds odd to say, since they're the least socialist group of Democrats/Independents, but I think they just like the patriarchal familiar thing. They might listen to what he has to say about healthcare (especially drug prices) and some other things, so he might not lose out too badly. He also has the whole maverick thing going for him, and a core group of intensely dedicated followers like Trump had. I am worried though, because all of that might not stack up to the lingering fear of socialism.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Sure but people vote for all kinds of reasons. Its possible they voted for Clinton despite liking Sanders more due to the impression that Clinton was more electable. Your claim was that reasonable people would be alienated by Sanders but I think that's an odd thing to suggest when he's more popular than she is. They may not have faith in his chances but I doubt he'd be as alienating as the Ice Queen.

But we'd expect Sanders to be more popular given that the GOP's strategy was to try to divide the left by pushing the narrative that Bernie was screwed and to try to take Clinton down. The problem is that Clinton's favorability was much higher when the smear campaign against her started. I guess it's possible that people who view Bernie favorably will show more resilience in that view in the face of smears, but I don't think there's any reason to expect it.

 

[Jack V Savage]

What worked 20-30 years ago in Carville's heyday doesn't work now. This is the populist era. We need real left wing populists to counter the fake populists on the right. Dinosaurs like Carville don't get this.

What's the evidence that this is a populist era?

 

[AnGrYcRoW]

Interesting vid by Robert Reich , former secretary of Labor under Clinton which relates directly to this discussion

 

[Fawlty]

I guess it's possible that people who view Bernie favorably will show more resilience in that view in the face of smears, but I don't think there's any reason to expect it.

What kind of odds would you lay against Bernie being labeled a rapist or pedophile?

 

[Jack V Savage]

What kind of odds would you lay against Bernie being labeled a rapist or pedophile?

Don't know. I'd say that if he wins the primary, it's a virtual lock that Trump will call him a criminal, and there's a very strong chance there will be some kind of investigation to back that up. Also a very good chance that the MSM will play along--not because there's a conspiracy against Bernie (the same thing happened to Clinton) but because the MSM is not set up to deal with asymmetrical ratfuckery.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

What's the evidence that this is a populist era?

Trump, Bolsonaro, Johnson, Brexit, Duterte, etc. The left needs to get in on this or risk losing to the fake populists on the right...

 

[Cajun]

The problem with Bernie, is that his policy proposals have not really been tested in an election, and socialism has never been popular. He may bring in new voters, yes, but he also may turn a hell of a lot more off, because he's so far off the status quo that a lot of Americans are just fine with, and don't want a big unpredictable drastic change. They're not all poor and suffering like Bernie would want you to believe.

He's a big gamble if anything. He's not a slam dunk by any means.

Agreed.

I'm worried about that too. Not sure how he'll do with black people either.

One thing Bernie has going for him is that old moderate white people (especially men) like him. It sounds odd to say, since they're the least socialist group of Democrats/Independents, but I think they just like the patriarchal familiar thing. They might listen to what he has to say about healthcare (especially drug prices) and some other things, so he might not lose out too badly. He also has the whole maverick thing going for him, and a core group of intensely dedicated followers like Trump had. I am worried though, because all of that might not stack up to the lingering fear of socialism.

I'm worried about that too. Not sure how he'll do with black people either.

One thing Bernie has going for him is that old moderate white people (especially men) like him. It sounds odd to say, since they're the least socialist group of Democrats/Independents, but I think they just like the patriarchal familiar thing. They might listen to what he has to say about healthcare (especially drug prices) and some other things, so he might not lose out too badly. He also has the whole maverick thing going for him, and a core group of intensely dedicated followers like Trump had. I am worried though, because all of that might not stack up to the lingering fear of socialism.

Agreed. Interesting on the old moderate whites tho given his socialist label. The picture I see playing out is all of the old interviews of him touting communism and communist countries running off lots of older voters. If he wins the primary it will definitely be an interesting election. But Carville just doesnt want to take any chances and I dont disagree. He mentioned that Warren needs to get back to the basics people worry about and pitching her working mother at UofH. I think he was right on that as well. I cant believe Biden didnt put more effort into Iowa. Big mistake imo.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

What kind of odds would you lay against Bernie being labeled a rapist or pedophile?

Extremely low because there's no dirt on him, unlike Bill and Hillary.

 

[Cajun]

Extremely low because there's no dirt on him, unlike Bill and Hillary.

I think he means unfounded claims.