Jack Slacks Breakdown of JDS/Cain

[HaulParris]

Very nice explanation, TS, Thank You for posting.

 

[kflo]

That was definately part of it but really I think JDS's biggest problem was simpley that he couldnt deal with Cain's foward movement standing. In terms of takedown atempts he did actually force Cain into some wreckless long distance shots after that early escape.

Unlike Cain who was rounded enough to shift his gameplan I think Jnr has more work to do for a rematch. Obviously he needs to look at his cardio but he also IMHO needs to look at expanding his offence standing, perhaps more focus on knees? that seems an easier fix than learning a good power straight which can take years

he ultimately couldn't deal with it. he dealt with it ok to start. it was really the constant pressure, spacing and level changing that made jds completely predictable and one-dimensional. he controlled nothing. which could have been fine if he was able to time cain early, but that didn't happen, and it just got less likely as the fight progressed.

knees to deal with wrestling is risky as it makes you more susceptible to the takedown.

i'm thinking that jds can use his own movement to create angles that puts him on the offensive and not giving cain a consistent target in front of him, but it's somewhat trite considering the success jds has had until now and the quality of his own team. he does need to be prepared to stay on HIS game for longer even if he can't control the pace.

one thing is that he clearly needs to be more comfortable with his own bjj in a fight situation.

 

[kflo]

Agreed. The "low hands" mantra that Rogan kept repeating in the Wineland-Picket fight for instance, is getting pretty old. Obviously superior footwork, angles, agression and distance control is a lot more important. Even in the Lauzon- Miller fight we saw that doing the elbow/hands infront of face, defense isn't all that effective.

yes, the hands are part of the defense, not the defense. when jds got tagged, everything was wrong. his hand placement probably the least of the issues.

 

[Apprenticek]

Ugh is just a boxing elitist who doesn't like to think is beloved sport can be nullified by something as trivial as leg kicks.

If he had ever been leg kicked he would know that it matters very much since your legs are the vehicle of footwork which is the vehicle of good boxing. Kicking legs breaks down the foundation of all boxing.

Also for some context, this douchebag tears down a well respected contributor to MMA in order to promote himself rather than working hard and putting in the effort necessary to gain any sort of respect in this world. He is the definition of a douchebag.

 

[BlizzardVeers]

I'm going to disagree with the OP that "low hands" is that big an issue, this is MMA afterall and with gloves this small high lands isnt always going to be a watertight defence.

Really in MMA I think the keys to a strong standup defence are controling the distance and head/hip movement with Crocop and Fedor being exellent examples of the two techniques.

Very rarely did you see anyone get close enough to peak Crocop to exchange punches with him, generally he kept them at kicking distance very effectively. Equally Fedor was able to slip the straight punches from guys like Nog, Crocop, AA and Sylvia with exellent hip movement and so counter the weakness of his own looping shots.

Really effective head movement is obviously a very difficult skill to master and is often going to come at the cost of takedown defence. Dispite the original articles claim I think Fedor willingness to risk being taken down was part of the reason for his sucess.

Controling the distance while defending the takedown to me really depends on the ability to punish forward motion from your opponant. In Crocop's case the most obvious weapon to achieve this was his left straight but he also had potentially fight ending body kicks/punches aswell. Those kinds of shots are really missing from JDS's game just as they were from Chucks and I think thats a large part of why he was unable to keep cain at bay.

Agenst a stationary opponant at mid range the big looping shots JDS and Chuck throws/threw can be very effective. They sweep a pretty wide area either literallly or in terms of height so don't lways been to be timed perfectly to end fights, the KO of Cain seems a perfect example to me where he had his head down but JDS punch just travels that much further and catches him anyway.

Agenst forward movement on the other hand these punchs become IMHO much less effective as they sweep a very narrow area. Exactly the opposite is true of a good straight punch, Criocop's left straight or Machida's straight covers a pretty long distance, Lyoto didnt need to time Bader exactly as there was a pretty long distance where that punch would land with superior KO power, the same with Crocop/Wanderlei 2.

You could see that JDS looked to go to the body as a counter to this just as Chuck did when being hustled by Rampage the second time but in order for this to be effective it needs to be very well targetted into the liver/solar plexus.

I know this is a zombie revival, but someone mentioned this thread earlier today, and I came in to read it. Was not disappointed. Despite the poor grammar, I thought this was a well thought-out post.

It touches on a subject that I've considered for a while in MMA. It's not a tactful analysis of anything, but MMA striking seems really ill-suited for any kind of covering up to block shots, to be honest. Having your hands down still seems like a poor decision, since you can still block a head-kick with your hands with proper movement. But simply covering up will result in you getting swarmed and blasted with shot openings, due to the small amount of space your arms actually cover. Which is interesting, because when eating a punch, it seems a natural response to cover your head and upper-body with your arms, but this may not be the correct course of action at all.

But it seems that the only way to truly keep from getting battered in a Cage in MMA is movement. The vast array of ways that you can be struck in MMA makes it so that moving in the correct way, whether it be your head slipping a shot, moving to the side or even, as stupid as it may be, moving backward, is the only viable defense. MMA tends to be a sport of cutting off angles and committing to a barrage of attack in order to overwhelm an otherwise poorly defending fighter. I've just found this an interesting subject since Cro Cop's move to the UFC, and his subsequent poor performance. Largely, to me, this had to do with his lack of knowing how to properly move in the cage to cut off angles and use them to attack. By the time he learned to properly compete in the cage with his striking, his body had already taken more damage than he ever took in his K-1 and PRIDE career.

 

[flanellograf]

I know this is a zombie revival, but someone mentioned this thread earlier today, and I came in to read it. Was not disappointed. Despite the poor grammar, I thought this was a well thought-out post.

It touches on a subject that I've considered for a while in MMA. It's not a tactful analysis of anything, but MMA striking seems really ill-suited for any kind of covering up to block shots, to be honest. Having your hands down still seems like a poor decision, since you can still block a head-kick with your hands with proper movement. But simply covering up will result in you getting swarmed and blasted with shot openings, due to the small amount of space your arms actually cover. Which is interesting, because when eating a punch, it seems a natural response to cover your head and upper-body with your arms, but this may not be the correct course of action at all.

But it seems that the only way to truly keep from getting battered in a Cage in MMA is movement. The vast array of ways that you can be struck in MMA makes it so that moving in the correct way, whether it be your head slipping a shot, moving to the side or even, as stupid as it may be, moving backward, is the only viable defense. MMA tends to be a sport of cutting off angles and committing to a barrage of attack in order to overwhelm an otherwise poorly defending fighter. I've just found this an interesting subject since Cro Cop's move to the UFC, and his subsequent poor performance. Largely, to me, this had to do with his lack of knowing how to properly move in the cage to cut off angles and use them to attack. By the time he learned to properly compete in the cage with his striking, his body had already taken more damage than he ever took in his K-1 and PRIDE career.

This is a large part of Andersons success. His ability to gauge and keep distance is just superior to everyone he faces.
But also, I believe hand-trapping techniques are severely underutilized in mma, and I don't really get why. The open gloves make this a much more viable technique than in boxing/kickboxing (where it is used anyway), but I've only really seen it used a few times. Fedor used it from time to time, Anderson has too, Bones used it against Rashad to set up elbows but one of the best recent examples must be Pettis vs Cerrone. He completely neutralized Cerrones offence and defence with it.

 

[ShreddinMMA]

Finally. A decent read on the fight. People who can't understand that JDS being far too worried about the TD is the entire reason he lost, shouldn't speak on what he should have done. Hold your hands too low, you get punched. Too high, you'll be on your ass faster than you can blink. It's not a hard concept to grasp.

JDS' problem was more that Cain kept him moving backwards and didn't allow him to plant his feet rather than just fear of a takedown. It had some resemblance of what Fedor did to Cro Cop.

Cain kept moving forward with his striking and clinching, forcing JDS to move backwards, not allowing him to generate power.

The fear of the takedown is a small part of the total equation.