Jack Slacks Breakdown of JDS/Cain

[Ughugh]

Dude, seriously. Why can't you just respect another men's opinion and others that like his articles?

How about if you respect mine? Are you Jack's boyfriend or something..? Why so mad..?

I can honestly say that if I felt like I had more knowledge then either of you experts,

Again. I never said I was an expert. Jack does.

 

[oldschool281]

Good article. I agree Cain's gameplan gave JDS fits. Looking forward to see how JDS comes back after thi fight.

 

[pavian]

How about if you respect mine? Are you Jack's boyfriend or something..? Why so mad..?



Again. I never said I was an expert. Jack does.

And I didn't? Did I say you are wrong? Did I called you a moron? Did I say "you shouldn't have inputs on strategies"?

Read your posts again and tell me you didn't arrive on your high horse and still riding it like you are the king of the world

And about the expert thing, you claim to know more about striking them the guy who wrote the article this thread is about and everyone's praising. It's logical inference that you consider yourself an expert amongst average posters, the only illogical thin is you trying to cover up because somehow you value humility above knowledge, or so it seems

Just say it, you still haven't dug yourself in a deeper hole then you can climb, just say its ok for us to like his articles and that he's actually doing a fine job in educating people more about striking

And you are not

There's no need to insult anyone any further

 

[Ughugh]

Haterade is this guys breakfast

Loved his article before and after the fight. Besides the leg kicks he was spot on with JDS walking backwards and how Cain utilized that to his advantage using the cage

What articles have you written?

And I didn't? Did I say you are wrong? Did I called you a moron? Did I say "you shouldn't have inputs on strategies"?

Top: your first post, in which You in all Your glorious ****yness quoted Me.

Bottom: the inane rants of a devoted contrarian.

And about the expert thing, you claim to know more about striking them the guy who wrote the article this thread is about and everyone's praising. It's logical inference that you consider yourself an expert amongst average posters,

Just to be clear I consider you a below average poster. You're in full on defense mode on Jack's behalf and you've not even bothered checking on any of the stuff I wrote? How insane are you for thinking your opinion matters when you're attacking a position you've not even investigated the validity of? You're the definition of Shertard.

And you've wasted enough of my time...

 

[Obsidian]

Jack is a bit of a dork. His piece before the fight (http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2012/12/27/3804288/killing-the-king-junior-dos-santos) he went into long tangents about JDS body jab coupled with some weird examples from Mayweather vs Mosley plus boring calls for leg kicks etc.

Now... had he watched Hopkins vs de la Hoya he would have had the formula already and not made as many stupid conclusions...


Karate guys simply shouldn't be allowed to analyze anything. Stick to pointing out after the fact stuff like tendencies instead because strategy is not for you.

There is more than one way to skin a cat. Just because Cain won in a specific fashion doesnt mean that the tactics Jack was advocating couldn't also be effective.

 

[fightdonttweet]

Just to be clear I consider you a below average poster. You're in full on defense mode on Jack's behalf and you've not even bothered checking on any of the stuff I wrote? How insane are you for thinking your opinion matters when you're attacking a position you've not even investigated the validity of? You're the definition of Shertard.

You've not written a single opinion about the fight in this thread. How about you do that before you belittle someone elses? If you're going to criticize someone opinion, you'd better at least give us some cause to believe yours is better.

 

[submiturass]

I can see JDS being more aggressive next time and moving into Cain. Screwing up his timing. Using knees also while coming in.

 

[MrVet]

Jack is a bit of a dork. His piece before the fight (http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2012/12/27/3804288/killing-the-king-junior-dos-santos) he went into long tangents about JDS body jab coupled with some weird examples from Mayweather vs Mosley plus boring calls for leg kicks etc.

Now... had he watched Hopkins vs de la Hoya he would have had the formula already and not made as many stupid conclusions...


Karate guys simply shouldn't be allowed to analyze anything. Stick to pointing out after the fact stuff like tendencies instead because strategy is not for you.

Just because he didn't predict the fight minute by minute doesn't mean his analysis isn't valid. I don't always agree with everything he writes in his articles but he always qualifies his statements with evidence be it from past fights or his screenshots. If he was right 100% of the time I'm sure he would be a millionare by destroying the bookies.

 

[TheStrikingGuy]

Cheers for popping this up guys. Sorry I can't please everyone but as always I don't make predictions.

If I could predict fights accurately I would make a ton of money doing that. I strategize and point to patterns - I leave the picking and the betting to gamblers.

 

[Ughugh]

Cheers for popping this up guys. Sorry I can't please everyone but as always I don't make predictions.

If I could predict fights accurately I would make a ton of money doing that. I strategize and point to patterns - I leave the picking and the betting to gamblers.

You didn't "strategize" anything though. You "point out patterns" and whenever boxing strategy enters the picture you write something ho-hum about karateninjasuperstreetfightertactics and completely bypass the finer details of pugilism because you're so obviously unfamiliar with them. "Kick the leg" is your go to analyze of boxing as if you're stuck in perpetual regurgitation of the ending scenes of Karate Kid.

Here's how you "strategized" the boxing aspects of fight...

"Beating Dos Santos

All this praise for Dos Santos' game might have left you wondering how on earth it is possible to beat such a man. If a fighter blocks the body shots he becomes a punching bag, and if a fighter tries to retaliate he runs the risk of lunging into a chopping left hook. In truth the game of Dos Santos is entirely built around his foot work. He stands at great range until he wants to strike and then he lunges in and out again.

It seems to be a recurring theme in my analysis but against good boxers it is downright stupid not to try and destroy their mobility and their base. There are all manner of counter punches that I could advocate against Dos Santos' chin up body straights, but the level of striking in the heavyweight division is just nowhere near high enough and Dos Santos seems to desire the opponent to counter and chase, so we will set out-gunning Dos Santos aside for another day (perhaps if Alistair Overeem gets a title shot).

The first thing that can be done against the now familiar boxing stance (long, narrow, side on) is to kick the lead leg inward - just as the Diaz brothers and B.J. Penn have repeatedly shown to be weak to. Dos Santos is so light on his feet in fact, and focused on movement, that a couple of the few low kicks landed on him so far have managed to throw him completely off balance."


You're basically saying you have all the answers but you wont share them because the trained professional's levels aren't high enough? Yeah... I guess that's one way of avoiding writing something meaningful on the topic... :wink:

 

[T Rollie]

Thanks for the article Jack. Always enjoy checking them out.

 

[ImPitPatPuncher]

You didn't "strategize" anything though. You "point out patterns" and whenever boxing strategy enters the picture you write something ho-hum about karateninjasuperstreetfightertactics and completely bypass the finer details of pugilism because you're so obviously unfamiliar with them. "Kick the leg" is your go to analyze of boxing as if you're stuck in perpetual regurgitation of the ending scenes of Karate Kid.

Here's how you "strategized" the boxing aspects of fight...

"Beating Dos Santos

All this praise for Dos Santos' game might have left you wondering how on earth it is possible to beat such a man. If a fighter blocks the body shots he becomes a punching bag, and if a fighter tries to retaliate he runs the risk of lunging into a chopping left hook. In truth the game of Dos Santos is entirely built around his foot work. He stands at great range until he wants to strike and then he lunges in and out again.

It seems to be a recurring theme in my analysis but against good boxers it is downright stupid not to try and destroy their mobility and their base. There are all manner of counter punches that I could advocate against Dos Santos' chin up body straights, but the level of striking in the heavyweight division is just nowhere near high enough and Dos Santos seems to desire the opponent to counter and chase, so we will set out-gunning Dos Santos aside for another day (perhaps if Alistair Overeem gets a title shot).

The first thing that can be done against the now familiar boxing stance (long, narrow, side on) is to kick the lead leg inward - just as the Diaz brothers and B.J. Penn have repeatedly shown to be weak to. Dos Santos is so light on his feet in fact, and focused on movement, that a couple of the few low kicks landed on him so far have managed to throw him completely off balance."


You're basically saying you have all the answers but you wont share them because the trained professional's levels aren't high enough? Yeah... I guess that's one way of avoiding writing something meaningful on the topic... :wink:

lol you have a point here.
I don't always agree with him but he is good at explaining details that most fans will never notice.

aka majority of sherdog...

 

[Ughugh]

You've not written a single opinion about the fight in this thread. How about you do that before you belittle someone elses? If you're going to criticize someone opinion, you'd better at least give us some cause to believe yours is better.

Here's what I wrote in response to Jack's reply in the other thread before I decided it wasn't worth the nuisance of posting it:

I tend to become a little ****y when boxing is involded but whatever. Watch Hopkins vs de la Hoya if you want the real anti-dote instead of those f***ing leg kicks you suggested.

The point you're missing is if a guy wants to play fencing (which is not at all uncommon in boxing btw) and jabs to the body you double up on his jab but to the head; coupled with right straights to break the momentum. By doing this you're countering with higher quality than he has to offer. The moment he gets tired of throwing it, you dip and dirty box or if you are Cain go for the TD. If he's already gone you reset and if he tries to land on your head you do a little fencing and body shots of your own. It's not that JDS has formidable anything it's just that his opponents has no response to his boxing and leg kicks certainly wont address that issue.

Picture perfect example would be Hopkins vs de da Hoya. Oscar tried to fence and B-hop doubled his jab, countered, dirty boxed, went to the body, stole his mojo and knocked him the fuck out. Swap the dirty boxing for TDs, keep the bumps, add a jab and you have the perfect gameplan for Cain. Have him play chess instead of checkers ffs. And leg kicks up your ass. How the hell is a leg kick gonna be faster than a jab?!?!?!

 

[Ughugh]

lol you have a point here.
I don't always agree with him but he is good at explaining details that most fans will never notice.

aka majority of sherdog...

Yeah I don't mind the pointing out stuff he does either and I think it's a great read. I certainly don't have the time to do it and few does. All credit to him for that. It's wonderful work.

It's when he goes crazy and starts making up bullshit strategies or rankings (yes, rankings) or trying to fit everything into a karate mold that the irritation levels rises significantly. Stick to pointing out stuff and the pieces doubles in quality...

 

[TheStrikingGuy]

Yeah I don't mind the pointing out stuff he does either and I think it's a great read. I certainly don't have the time to do it and few does. All credit to him for that. It's wonderful work.

It's when he goes crazy and starts making up bullshit strategies or rankings (yes, rankings) or trying to fit everything into a karate mold that the irritation levels rises significantly. Stick to pointing out stuff and the pieces doubles in quality...

I don't think I've ever tried to fit everything into a karate mold. You need to stop trying to be a boxing elitist man - I've been training boxing almost as long as I've been training karate so I don't really have much of a bias.

In the Killing the King: Junior Dos Santos article I pointed out that it's not worth talking too much about the boxing because the level isn't that great in MMA so trying to counter the guy with the best level in the division might not be worth the trouble when diving on the leg and pushing to the fence will force so many more opportunities open - which they did.

It's great that your so passionate but "I don't have the time" doesn't really cut it when you post here as often as you do. If you want to write an analysis, write a piece before the fight happens - I'd be happy to look at it.

 

[van1ty]

why should i read anything from the guy who was saying pre-fight that JDS was a boxing god and cain has garbage striking?

no offense, as mr. slack always makes great points, but as i said when i read his very first article (exploiting the blind angle on uppercuts), the fact that you can show some different points does not mean that a picture exists when you connect them. slack often misses the bigger picture.

 

[TheStrikingGuy]

why should i read anything from the guy who was saying pre-fight that JDS was a boxing god and cain has garbage striking?

no offense, as mr. slack always makes great points, but as i said when i read his very first article (exploiting the blind angle on uppercuts), the fact that you can show some different points does not mean that a picture exists when you connect them. slack often misses the bigger picture.

When did I ever say that JDS was a boxing god or that Cain's striking was garbage? I said that JDS uses body straights incredibly effectively where the rest of the division head hunts.

And my point about Cain was that he eats a lot of punches on the way in because his head movement is ineffective.

It still is when he's striking - his use of the takedown opened more opportunities for him to strike unanswered.

The big picture is that everything isn't always black and white - Cain winning doesn't mean his head movement has improved - it means he used a much smarter strategy than last time.

I'm sure you see the double standard of talking about the bigger picture and then grossly exaggerating what I said though...

 

[Ughugh]

I don't think I've ever tried to fit everything into a karate mold. You need to stop trying to be a boxing elitist man - I've been training boxing almost as long as I've been training karate so I don't really have much of a bias.

Yeah sure you did. What's the name of your gym and coach if I may ask? Name some competitions you've entered. Guys you've trained with. Coins you've collected.

In the Killing the King: Junior Dos Santos article I pointed out that it's not worth talking too much about the boxing because the level isn't that great in MMA so trying to counter the guy with the best level in the division might not be worth the trouble when diving on the leg and pushing to the fence will force so many more opportunities open - which they did.

The hell are you talking about Uri Geller? Hold my watch up against the screen? What??

You actually had a whole section on what you called "Baiting the Chase" in which you offered no sollutions but simply pointed out that chasing him, as Cain did, would see you get punched in the face. There was a utter lack of suggestions on how he'd stop JDS' fencing and how to close the distance. The one thing you could muster was leg kicks...

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2012/12/27/3804288/killing-the-king-junior-dos-santos

So who are you trying to fool? Stick to what you do well and don't try to oversell the things that you don't know. Again, this is all You: "There are all manner of counter punches that I could advocate against Dos Santos' chin up body straights, but the level of striking in the heavyweight division is just nowhere near high enough and Dos Santos seems to desire the opponent to counter and chase, so we will set out-gunning Dos Santos aside for another day (perhaps if Alistair Overeem gets a title shot)." Now is that really what happened? Cain bypassed the boxing and simply wandered in and took him down at will (after your proposed leg kicks of course)? "A thought specific to Cain Velasquez, who simply leaves himself too open to counter with his kicks - which are thrown from directly in front of his opponent with his head bolt upright - is to dive straight for the lead leg." [...] "in truth diving into clinches with his arms up and shooting for legs might be his best bet of getting the fight to where he can do the most damage and tire the champion out the most." For a dude who calls himself TheStrikingGuy you're certainly lacking quite a bit in your area of expertise. And oh what do you know... you tend to use the same anal certainty in your "strategizing" of wrestling as you do in striking.

It's great that your so passionate but "I don't have the time" doesn't really cut it when you post here as often as you do. If you want to write an analysis, write a piece before the fight happens - I'd be happy to look at it.

I don't have the time to watch all the fights is what I wrote when I complimented you on it. I know how much time it takes from just the one or two fights when I'm betting. You are good at spotting tendencies. Well done for spotting what goes on and putting a unique twist on your meta play-by-play. Really.

To go from this to me writing an article - and english isn't my first language btw so would be a real strain and probably a shit read - just to have an opinion on your shit analysis is absurd. Get off your high horse and apply some honesty instead of slinging out a bunch of supposedly false credentials and McDojo stuff under a thin veil of arrogance fueled by the horde of dorks that reads your articles like it's a bible.

YOU wrote stuff like this "If a fighter chooses to take the body jabs and straights against a man who steps in with each punch as well as Dos Santos does that fighter risks injury and will be winded far quicker than if he commits to defending the straights" not ME - and pointing out the FACT that this goes against rudimentary boxing strategy is not an exclusive option only made available to those who can write. I can GUARANTEE you that there is not a single boxing coach on planet earth, McDojo or not, who'd suggest that the best defense against body jabs is to "commit to defending". That's just HORSESHIT. 99,999999999999% of all boxing coaches would tell you the best defense is to counter or double up on it because "committing to defending" the body jab the way you suggested it is boxing suicide. Just amazingly retarded stuff. You are literally saying that the best option is to FOLD. And we could go on and on like this with all your boxing related stuff...

 

[Ughugh]

why should i read anything from the guy who was saying pre-fight that JDS was a boxing god and cain has garbage striking?

no offense, as mr. slack always makes great points, but as i said when i read his very first article (exploiting the blind angle on uppercuts), the fact that you can show some different points does not mean that a picture exists when you connect them. slack often misses the bigger picture.

No he didn't, is what he's saying. He had it right all along and we're simply just misreading his brilliant articles. He's traned in Japan and could kill Seagal with one swift mata-shurieyninjutsu blow, you see. Sensei Slack, that DOES know Jack. He invented the axe kick.

 

[TheStrikingGuy]

Yeah sure you did. What's the name of your gym and coach if I may ask? Name some competitions you've entered. Guys you've trained with. Coins you've collected.



The hell are you talking about Uri Geller? Hold my watch up against the screen? What??

You actually had a whole section on what you called "Baiting the Chase" in which you offered no sollutions but simply pointed out that chasing him, as Cain did, would see you get punched in the face. There was a utter lack of suggestions on how he'd stop JDS' fencing and how to close the distance. The one thing you could muster was leg kicks...

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2012/12/27/3804288/killing-the-king-junior-dos-santos

So who are you trying to fool? Stick to what you do well and don't try to oversell the things that you don't know. Again, this is all You: "There are all manner of counter punches that I could advocate against Dos Santos' chin up body straights, but the level of striking in the heavyweight division is just nowhere near high enough and Dos Santos seems to desire the opponent to counter and chase, so we will set out-gunning Dos Santos aside for another day (perhaps if Alistair Overeem gets a title shot)." Now is that really what happened? Cain bypassed the boxing and simply wandered in and took him down at will (after your proposed leg kicks of course)? "A thought specific to Cain Velasquez, who simply leaves himself too open to counter with his kicks - which are thrown from directly in front of his opponent with his head bolt upright - is to dive straight for the lead leg." [...] "in truth diving into clinches with his arms up and shooting for legs might be his best bet of getting the fight to where he can do the most damage and tire the champion out the most." For a dude who calls himself TheStrikingGuy you're certainly lacking quite a bit in your area of expertise. And oh what do you know... you tend to use the same anal certainty in your "strategizing" of wrestling as you do in striking.



I don't have the time to watch all the fights is what I wrote when I complimented you on it. I know how much time it takes from just the one or two fights when I'm betting. You are good at spotting tendencies. Well done for spotting what goes on and putting a unique twist on your meta play-by-play. Really.

To go from this to me writing an article - and english isn't my first language btw so would be a real strain and probably a shit read - just to have an opinion on your shit analysis is absurd. Get off your high horse and apply some honesty instead of slinging out a bunch of supposedly false credentials and McDojo stuff under a thin veil of arrogance fueled by the horde of dorks that reads your articles like it's a bible.

YOU wrote stuff like this "If a fighter chooses to take the body jabs and straights against a man who steps in with each punch as well as Dos Santos does that fighter risks injury and will be winded far quicker than if he commits to defending the straights" not ME - and pointing out the FACT that this goes against rudimentary boxing strategy is not an exclusive option only made available to those who can write. I can GUARANTEE you that there is not a single boxing coach on planet earth, McDojo or not, who'd suggest that the best defense against body jabs is to "commit to defending". That's just HORSESHIT. 99,999999999999% of all boxing coaches would tell you the best defense is to counter or double up on it because "committing to defending" the body jab the way you suggested it is boxing suicide. Just amazingly retarded stuff. You are literally saying that the best option is to FOLD. And we could go on and on like this with all your boxing related stuff...

I mentioned low kicks for about a paragraph. My main advice was to stick to what Cain does best and dive on legs, drive to the clinch and work his magic from their.

Secondly I didn't recommend a way to defend the body jab - I pointed out that the reason it has proven so obnoxious when used by greats like Mayweather and Ray Robinson is that it is something you are simply supposed to avoid or take - moving ones hands to defend it is terrible boxing form as I'm sure you know.

If you could quote me the point where I said someone SHOULD "commit to defending" the body jab I'll apologize because I never implied that one SHOULD move the hands to defend a body jab.

Now we're done talking about things I didn't say - you are more than welcome to write counter analysis but repeating cliches such as "double the jab" is not analysis OR strategy - it's just that, repeating cliches.