Jacare vs. Chael

lets see how long it takes him to recover from Jones first
 
Auz said:
Apparently Chael hasn't improved his BJJ at all, and his striking sucks.

Oh wait, Chael's BJJ has improved a ton since 2009, and his striking has gotten better as well.

I'll pick the guy that has the HUGE cardio advantage, Chael Sonnen.

Tim Kennedy and Luke Rockhold both made Jacare look very beatable. Sonnen is not the same fighter he was in 2009. He's a top guy now.
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If you have more sub losses than anyone in the UFC, you don't just improve enough since..............2009 to not get subbed by Jacare.

Not get subbed by Brian Stann, sure, but Jacare has one of the best BJJ pedigrees in the game. And Chael, well, he's Chael and he always gets subbed in the most embarrassing fashion imaginable by anyone who is even competent at offensive submissions.

It's more likely Chael gets submitted in the most hilarious way we've ever seen in MMA history than it is he......well, doesn't get subbed at all.
 
Jacare all day, better striking and a fuckin freak on the ground
 
SerrabyTKO said:
Filho and Okami.
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Uh, Chael was subbed by Filho.

filhosonnen.jpg
 
SerrabyTKO said:
Not the second time.
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You want to give Chael Sonnen credit for only getting subbed once and not twice by Filho?

Chael may be the only guy who gets credit for shit everyone is supposed to do, which is not get subbed in every fight.
 
CosmicOsmo said:
Chael has more than a little bit of trouble against a strong bottom game, and Jacare's bottom game is more than strong.
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True, true. I guess I just need to see Jacare beat one or two more strong opponents, I don't have a good feel for how good he is yet. Being able to sub people in BJJ is a lot different than in MMA.
 
MMA Fan 505 said:
You want to give Chael Sonnen credit for only getting subbed once and not twice by Filho?

Chael may be the only guy who gets credit for shit everyone is supposed to do, which is not get subbed in every fight.
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I'm giving him credit for improving his submission defense to the point where he could spend 25 mins on the ground with an elite blackbelt that subbed him before, and has subbed plenty of other people, and win, yes.
 
SerrabyTKO said:
Not the second time.
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The fight didn't hit the ground the second time. Did you watch it?

Okami is also not a BJJ black belt, he has great sub defense but not offense. He has only one sub in his whole career, and that was over this guy: http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Brian-Foster-86

The best submission guy he's ever beaten on the mat was Miller, and if we're being honest Miller is about on the level of Ed Herman in subs.
 
popwarnermma said:
Nate and Dan are not even close to being in the same league as Jacare when it comes to grappling.
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Never said or implied they were, and I in fact said Chael would lose to Jacare.

You people have terrible reading comprehension.
 
Interesting matchup for obvious reasons.

Jacare not only takes it because he possesses an offensive BJJ pedigree second to almost none, but he's just an aggressive physical beast and also a big MW that would put Chael in his place pretty handily.

I love Chael's game but I just don't see this in his favor.
 
CosmicOsmo said:
The fight didn't hit the ground the second time. Did you watch it?

Okami is also not a BJJ black belt, he has great sub defense but not offense. He has only one sub in his whole career, and that was over this guy: http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Brian-Foster-86

The best submission guy he's ever beaten on the mat was Miller, and if we're being honest Miller is about on the level of Ed Herman in subs.
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Okami is absolutely blackbelt level. He grappled with Maia at ADCC and was very competitive. He lost a close match on points.
 
SerrabyTKO said:
I'm giving him credit for improving his submission defense to the point where he could spend 25 mins on the ground with an elite blackbelt that subbed him before, and has subbed plenty of other people, and win, yes.
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I do not think they spent 25 minutes on the ground. I don't think they spent ANY time on the ground. All I remember is them dancing around each other for 25 minutes and Filho flopping to the ground and asking Chael to join him, and Chael saying no. But maybe he just wanted to keep his new super elite submission defense a secret.

In all seriousness, Chael is MMA's jester. He gets subbed all the time. He has more submission losses than anyone in the UFC. Has he improved? Maybe, we don't know yet. But what we do know is if you've been subbed more times than anyone else in the UFC, you don't just easily improve to the point where you don't get submitted by someone the caliber of Jacare. If you could, then someone who has never been subbed before would be able to improve enough to not get subbed by Jacare, but they don't, so why would a guy who always gets subbed improve enough?
 
A multiple world champion Jiu Jitsu and ADCC vs a decorated wrestler with poor submission defense. Chael beats a huge majority of UFC mw's but this fight would look just like him vs Maia.
 
SerrabyTKO said:
Okami is absolutely blackbelt level. He grappled with Maia at ADCC and was very competitive. He lost a close match on points.
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It was a a ref's decision, no points were scored, because he just laid in Maia's guard and defended the whole fight. He does have excellent sub defense, which I already acknowledged. The fact remains that the only guy he's ever subbed is a can with a 9-12 record and with 8 losses by sub, and that was 8 years ago. The fact that he failed to sub Chael doesn't really say much about Chael's sub defense.
 
MMA Fan 505 said:
I do not think they spent 25 minutes on the ground. I don't think they spent ANY time on the ground. All I remember is them dancing around each other for 25 minutes and Filho flopping to the ground and asking Chael to join him, and Chael saying no. But maybe he just wanted to keep his new super elite submission defense a secret.

In all seriousness, Chael is MMA's jester. He gets subbed all the time. He has more submission losses than anyone in the UFC. Has he improved? Maybe, we don't know yet. But what we do know is if you've been subbed more times than anyone else in the UFC, you don't just easily improve to the point where you don't get submitted by someone the caliber of Jacare. If you could, then someone who has never been subbed before would be able to improve enough to not get subbed by Jacare, but they don't, so why would a guy who always gets subbed improve enough?
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Watch the fight again, they may not have spent the full 25 mins but there was plenty of time spent on the ground.


I also made it perfectly clear that I think Chael would lose to Jacare.

Do you guys just not read?
 
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