Jacare v. Jason Miller *spoiler*

irc said:
Not impressed by Jacare's performance. He had the back more than once, and he had mount, and lost them every time without doing any damage or really ever threatening Miller. Perhaps I just really underestimated Miller, but Miller never once looked worried. Jacare never even really made any legit sub attempts. It went to decision and could have gone either way.

I guess it's just surprising when you see Jacare in grappling tournaments and the way he utterly crushes the best BJJ players on the planet.
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He didn't have a very good camp for this fight. He was preoccupied with personal events. If he had a good camp he would have been better.
 
ShogunOOORAH said:
He didn't have a very good camp for this fight. He was preoccupied with personal events. If he had a good camp he would have been better.
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you gotta be careful when you say things like this. you are basically making an excuse for the fighter with many holes in it.


we have no way of knowing if he wouldve done better
we also have no way of knowing the actual quality of his camp

its unfortunte if he had personal issues but this is his job and its his responsibility to perform the best he can.


so i wouldnt blame his camp for things we dont even know about.


anyways jacare did good, he beat a quality fighter which gives him legit credit as an MMA fighter. he only beat green/lesser opponents previously.


I just thought he wouldve done better in the grappling aspect of the fight(minus his takedowns - he did pretty good in that area). he got reversed quite a few times and didnt look so dominant on the ground as i expected. He has shown much better GnP in past fights as well with not so much effort to GnP this time but still did more damage on the ground to mill than miller did to him.

im not sure if i expected him to submit miller, i thought there was a good chance but miller has a sick submission game so i didnt expect it.

he had some sub attempts but they just didnt sink in.
 
Teedoh74 said:
Give Miller more credit, he has way more mma experience than Jacare and is also a brown belt. He knew how to get away from those subs especially when it got really slippery.

Congrats to Jacare, he beat a quality opponent.
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top post i agree

jacare impressed with his standup too


miller imo is on of the tuffest in tht comp-- and jacare just beat him
 
Could have gone either way? WTF? I thought in these forums people would give Jacare credit for his positional clinic..

Miller is tough for anyone.. specially for his body build and no gi skills. Aoki'esque.
 
Terere said:
Could have gone either way? WTF? I thought in these forums people would give Jacare credit for his positional clinic..

Miller is tough for anyone.. specially for his body build and no gi skills. Aoki'esque.
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No, you see on this forum BJJ = submissions only. Position doesn't come into it. :rolleyes: Actually I completely agree with you. It is sad that a lot of people on Sherdog see it that way. There are too many misconceptions about what BJJ actually is. You can see it in the Sambo thread too. :(
 
FutureBxer said:
you gotta be careful when you say things like this. you are basically making an excuse for the fighter with many holes in it.


we have no way of knowing if he wouldve done better
we also have no way of knowing the actual quality of his camp

its unfortunte if he had personal issues but this is his job and its his responsibility to perform the best he can.


so i wouldnt blame his camp for things we dont even know about.


anyways jacare did good, he beat a quality fighter which gives him legit credit as an MMA fighter. he only beat green/lesser opponents previously.


I just thought he wouldve done better in the grappling aspect of the fight(minus his takedowns - he did pretty good in that area). he got reversed quite a few times and didnt look so dominant on the ground as i expected. He has shown much better GnP in past fights as well with not so much effort to GnP this time but still did more damage on the ground to mill than miller did to him.

im not sure if i expected him to submit miller, i thought there was a good chance but miller has a sick submission game so i didnt expect it.

he had some sub attempts but they just didnt sink in.
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He trains at Extreme Couture. It doesn't get much better.
 
Good fight. I understand that eveyone likes Jacare here but Mayhem fought the way he always does and put on a great fight. Jacare will have to improve on some areas still.
 
I felt as if the fight were to go a few more rounds, Mayhem would have gotten the win. The announcers were commenting that Mayhem was one of those rare individuals who doesn't get affected by the heel hook... They were also commenting how jacare looked uncomfortable in the ring

Genki Sudo was saying how envious he was of that trait, lol....

Congrats to Jacare, though- that was a big win over a quality opponent
 
Miller had Jacare wobbly on the legs from a few shots a few times. I watched and re-watched this fight a few times. Jacare by a hair.
 
I really enjoyed the matchup. I was suprised that Miller could hang with Jacare in no Gi so easily. They are both great athletes.

I believe the only reason Jacare won was becasue he pushed the fight. That fight could have gone either way but Jacare was throwing sub attempt after sub attempt. Miller got points for escapes reversals and the stand up game.

I was impressed with Jacare's stand up and takedowns.
I was impressed with Millers ground work with such a great ground game player.

VERY entertaining fight.
 
PhillyD45 said:
I really enjoyed the matchup. I was suprised that Miller could hang with Jacare in no Gi so easily. They are both great athletes.

I believe the only reason Jacare won was becasue he pushed the fight. That fight could have gone either way but Jacare was throwing sub attempt after sub attempt. Miller got points for escapes reversals and the stand up game.

I was impressed with Jacare's stand up and takedowns.
I was impressed with Millers ground work with such a great ground game player.

VERY entertaining fight.
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I still don;t see how people somehow dismiss sub attempts yet reward escapes so well.

Are we on the Goldberg line of thinking that escaping the sub is worth more than being the one performing it?
 
LOL at points for escapes. That is madness.

Points for reversals doesn't fly in grappling IMO, but MMA is different. I think reversals themselves are not scoring, but damage scored thereafter certainly is. However, if A takes B down into side control, B rolls him, and then A shrimps to guard (neutral, scoring dependent on damage in position), B gets nothing for briefly holding side, unless blows were landed.

The criteria for scoring in my mind:
-Damage
-Positional Dominance
-Desire to finish the fight

If you've got cross body and aren't doing anything with the hold, and your opponent is landing knees or elbows from the bottom, he is winning that portion of the fight.

If no damaging blows are being landed, and a fighter has an active guard, he is winning the fight. As soon as damaging blows are landed, they take precedent.
 
silverline122 said:
I felt as if the fight were to go a few more rounds, Mayhem would have gotten the win. The announcers were commenting that Mayhem was one of those rare individuals who doesn't get affected by the heel hook... They were also commenting how jacare looked uncomfortable in the ring

Genki Sudo was saying how envious he was of that trait, lol....

Congrats to Jacare, though- that was a big win over a quality opponent
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Anyone have footage that can vouch for Jason Miller being immune to the heel hook? That is truly amazing.
 
StevieSparkZ said:
Anyone have footage that can vouch for Jason Miller being immune to the heel hook? That is truly amazing.
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eh i dunno. i think maybe he just didnt have it locked in right and mayhem knew he was in no danger.


im not saying i know 100% but its hard to believe somebody is immune to a heel hook.
 
I was sleeping when the alarm clock woke me up to watch the fight in Hawaii it was about 2:00 a.m.? I missed the entrance but heard that Jason's entrance was crazy.

That being said I actually got to watch the fight and was impressed by both. I'm biased since I trained with Jason in Hawaii and was pulling for him. Jacare was a submission attempt, take down, positional dominance machine. Jason is well, Jason and impressed me, while making me cringe at that early hour, by fighting the submission attempts off, reversing and escaping.

I was impressed by Jacare but just as impressed by Jason. Congrats to both, I'm going keep that fight on my dvd recorder for a while and put that to dvd-r and video tape.
 
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