Jacare should have won that fight vs Gastellum.

DS66 said:
That's the problem with this scoring system. If round 3 was a toss-up like you say (and it definitely was), then it should be scored 10-10. You shouldn't have to arbitrarily pick a winner. 10-9 Jacare round 1, 10-9 Kelvin round 2, 10-10 round 3. 29-29, fight should be a draw.
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Why i don't disagree in theory, there is no way the UFC would want anything that would increase the number of fights that end in a draw. With the exception of Hunt vs Big Foot, it's an unsatisfying conclusion to a fight, and it stops divisions from moving when you get draws, which is bad for the sport as well.
 
rjmbrd said:
Heavyweight has the oldest average age of all divisions. That is a metric you don't want in athletics. We're shuffling around 40 year olds because the sport is having trouble attracting young, high caliber athletes.

The overall quality - and literal depth by numbers - at 150/170 is cartoonishly better than the upper weight divisions. That isn't just personified because of the size of humans, the NFL, NBA, MLB are not populated with average sized humans. Money is what attracts the appropriately sized elite athletes.

If the starting pay to get your head punched in at the highest level of MMA went up from 12k, you would see young, elite athletes enter the sport virtually overnight. Right now the risk -vs- reward is so terrible you just don't see it.

We crown EIGHT new All-American Division I heavyweight wrestlers each year. Where are they? You would be shocked at how many are teaching high school gym for 45k/year plus benefits. Thats how bad the risk -vs- reward is in the UFC right now.
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If what you were saying were true, then why would anyone play football? The NFL doesn't guarantee contracts and the average career length is 3 years. Sure we hear about the stars making a lot, but John Doe who makes $500K for a year or two then gets cut, is SOL. $1 million is garbage money for the rest of your life not to mention the head trauma that comes with it.

I think MMA has plenty of elite athletes. It's just American like to think only basketball and football players are athletes, wonder why.....
 
when deciding who should get the next title shot, obv the guy who the judges gave the fight to should be ahead.

but when it comes to skillsets, fans should be less binary. this fight was a virtual draw.

too many fans simply think "Gastelum won, he's better, Jacare lost, he's worse". those fans are dumb. don't be a dumb fan.
 
Ananth said:
Gastellum's chin held up well, but other than that he was getting pinged every minute of fight, except for the brief moment Jacare got knocked down.

Heck, Jacare landed 3-4 huge left hooks, at the end of the second round. Someone like Bisping, Rockhold would have dieded if they were at the end of those.

The third round was very close, but again Jacare had the better shots, got a couple of short take downs as well.

The first round should have been 10-8, if it was under the new rules. Second round was all Jacare until and even after the knockdown. Kelvin had like a couple minutes of good attack in the whole fight.

I think the image of Jacare slipping and sliding out of gassing out swayed the judges.

PS: I thought Kelvin's stand up was really good before - but I think he relies more on his chin than his boxing, someone like Stephen Thompson would destroy him, if he were to go down to WW. Whittaker also is far quicker than Gastellum, and will have a field day.
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Nah. Kelvin clearly won.
 
Maybe if he spent more than half the fight looking like something other than a zombie he might have. He looked much more defeated than kelvin.
 
I think they will get a rematch down th road... and Jacare won't blow his load for a sub early in the fight.

He knows that he was able to outstrike him... was able to do that while tired as shit. That's Amazing. So I'm sure Jacare will be looking forward to this rematch or his next fight.

You have to wonder. Jacare was landing some hard shots...that if he was not gassed, would that have hurt Gastlum more? Would it KO/set up a finish with other title contenders?

I know Jac is close to retirement, but I hope he doesn't let this fight discourage him. Just gotta fight smarter, like how he feels he trains smater now. He underestimated Gastlelums heart and ablity to not get subbed...and went all out to sub/finish him in that 1st round.
 
Judge Lance Ito said:
I thought Jacare deserved simply cause he's a cool looking mother fucker

Looks like some of hybrid that came straight out of the Amazon jungle
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He does look like a tribesman out of the Amazon, that doesn't make him look cool in my mind though, just ugly. lol
 
it was a dead even fight. what won it for gastelum was how well he reacted to the shots he took. jacare on the other hand was wobbling all over the cage. jacare wasn't prepared for someone who pushes the pace like gastelum.
 
daltonames said:
Why i don't disagree in theory, there is no way the UFC would want anything that would increase the number of fights that end in a draw. With the exception of Hunt vs Big Foot, it's an unsatisfying conclusion to a fight, and it stops divisions from moving when you get draws, which is bad for the sport as well.
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Yeah I understand that. But at the same time, bad judging decisions are an unsatisfying conclusion to a fight and bad for the sport as well.

I think we'd all be happy with seeing a Jacare/Kelvin rematch. Rather than judges determining the fate of both of their careers cause they were forced to chose a winner of a 3rd round that was clearly even.
 
Ananth said:
Gastellum's chin held up well, but other than that he was getting pinged every minute of fight, except for the brief moment Jacare got knocked down.

Heck, Jacare landed 3-4 huge left hooks, at the end of the second round. Someone like Bisping, Rockhold would have dieded if they were at the end of those.

The third round was very close, but again Jacare had the better shots, got a couple of short take downs as well.

The first round should have been 10-8, if it was under the new rules. Second round was all Jacare until and even after the knockdown. Kelvin had like a couple minutes of good attack in the whole fight.

I think the image of Jacare slipping and sliding out of gassing out swayed the judges.

PS: I thought Kelvin's stand up was really good before - but I think he relies more on his chin than his boxing, someone like Stephen Thompson would destroy him, if he were to go down to WW. Whittaker also is far quicker than Gastellum, and will have a field day.
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Don't leave it in the hands of the judges...
 
Gastelum isn't improving as much as many would have us believe. I'd say so far many of his wins are not incredibly impressive. He didn't win this fight clear enough IMO to even be considered for a title shot.

Rockhold or Weidman/Gastelum

Book it, make the guy prove he's worthy of a title shot. Gastelum seems to get better scores than his fights actually show. I never saw him beating Woodley anywhere, yet they went to a split decision. Against Jacare I don't personally see Gastelum winning that fight, yeah, it was close, but I think Jacare edged that despite being exhausted. I also don't think his split with Magny was close enough to warrant a split either. Gastelum seems to get the benefit of the doubt a great deal. He'll get embarrassed by Whitaker or Romero, probably Rockhold too if that dude ever fights again. Dude is elite, and you'd be a momo to think he's not, but I don't see him ever being Champion elite as long as Whitaker or Romero are above him in rankings. I don't see him beating either of them outside of freak KO.
 
TS is retarded. Clear win for Gastelum. Nice fight to lb too. Just shut up. I knew sal de amato or whatever his name is would be the idiot to give it to jacare he nearly always fucks up.
no idea how people think jacare won that or that it was a draw. clear win for gastelum. period. if you thought differently you´re just blatantly wrong
 
Close fight. Coulda gone either way. Had Jacare been 10 years younger he woulda won.
 
theantso said:
TS is retarded. Clear win for Gastelum. Nice fight to lb too. Just shut up. I knew sal de amato or whatever his name is would be the idiot to give it to jacare he nearly always fucks up.
no idea how people think jacare won that or that it was a draw. clear win for gastelum. period. if you thought differently you´re just blatantly wrong
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Watch that fight again, and have a word with yourself.

If damage is considered the criteria for a win, there is no possible way Gastellum wins. If coming close to finishing the fight is the criteria being used, the judges should have given it a draw.

Kelvin was mounted twice in the first round and was defending armbars for the last minute. While Gastellum's knockdown of Jacare in the second round got him all about 1 minute of influence.
 
Jacare's cardio fucked him over. In the third kelvins partially blocked strikes looked more damaging than Jacare landing clean.

There really shouldn't be an excuse for a guy as decorated in BJJ as he is gettin tired from a few minutes of top control.
 
rjmbrd said:
Heavyweight has the oldest average age of all divisions. That is a metric you don't want in athletics. We're shuffling around 40 year olds because the sport is having trouble attracting young, high caliber athletes.

The overall quality - and literal depth by numbers - at 150/170 is cartoonishly better than the upper weight divisions. That isn't just personified because of the size of humans, the NFL, NBA, MLB are not populated with average sized humans. Money is what attracts the appropriately sized elite athletes.

If the starting pay to get your head punched in at the highest level of MMA went up from 12k, you would see young, elite athletes enter the sport virtually overnight. Right now the risk -vs- reward is so terrible you just don't see it.

We crown EIGHT new All-American Division I heavyweight wrestlers each year. Where are they? You would be shocked at how many are teaching high school gym for 45k/year plus benefits. Thats how bad the risk -vs- reward is in the UFC right now.
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Your point was that old guys are at the top because we don’t get younger talent. Well how did we get the old guys at the top? The incentive is better now than ever.

The hw all american has to start training a new sport to be successful in mma. Any “athlete” has to learn a new sport. Just like it would be pretty hard to start playing any sport, it’s not so easy to just start to play mma. Some take that journey. It will never be an easy one or a sure one.
 
Gambit MMA said:
some of the judges arent the smartest people, thats for sure
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Its become the standard. No one gives even rounds so every judge is afraid to give even rounds and be different. Whoever is running shit needs to get these knuckleheads in the same room and announce over the loud speaker: IT IS OK TO SCORE ROUNDS AS A DRAW.

Same with the reffing. This needs to be a public announcement for all refs: IT IS OK TO TAKE AWAY POINTS FOR EYE POKING AND GROIN KICKS.
 
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