Its official! Sambo is now an Olympic sport!

KBE6EKCTAH_CCP said:
Nope. I am on team greco. There is more high amplitude stuff in greco. From a purely spectator perspective, freestyle is more often then none won on a technicality or a back take. The notion that freestyle is more spectacular is wrong.
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Greco has the crazy highlights, but aside from that it is quite boring. Freestyle has a more constant flow. But I consider Folk by far the most fun to watch
 
Patrick Jane said:
To answer this question, we must first come to an agreement about what makes one wrestling style "superior" to another. Since i made the claim that i consider it superior, i'm going to explain what i meant by it in this context. I believe Greco-Roman Wrestling is superior because in my opinion, the techniques it focuses on are the most essential and important techniques of grappling and focusing exclusively on them leads to a more refined skill in those techniques for the practicioners of that style. Another reason i consider it superior is that i consider it superior entertainment, that is, more pleasant to look than other styles.

This is my issue with freestyle. Greco techniques are, in my opinion, the core fundamentals of grappling. The more lax ruleset of freestyle wrestling waters it down, at least from my anecdotal experience. While freestyle wrestlers i knew had almost always difficulty transitioning to greco, as they felt their entire skillset was castrated, the greco wrestlers i knew transitioning to freestyle felt freestyle was much easier for them than even greco.
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I also prefer the skillset and strength developed in greco. Being strong with hand fighting, arm entrapment, clinching, and just general upper body control will be helpful in any combat situation.

However, in an open ruleset, freestyle will win because they will go to the legs. Nobody outside of greco clinches up with a Greco guy, it's suicide.
 
Human Bass said:
Greco has the crazy highlights, but aside from that it is quite boring. Freestyle has a more constant flow. But I consider Folk by far the most fun to watch
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I can see what you mean but I disagree bro. NTTAWWT.
 
Kforcer said:
Are you American? Because almost every single American wrestler who ended up being great in Greco was primarily a freestyle and scholastic wrestler first. Do you have examples of high-level Greco-Roman wrestlers who transitioned to freestyle and enjoyed high accolades?

I'm not saying this makes one better than the other, mind you. I'm just saying that, in America at least, almost all, if not all, successful Greco-Roman wrestlers were freestyle and scholastic wrestlers first.
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I'm not american but european and i don't even understand the precise ruleset of american folkstyle wrestling. Since wrestling is a school sport in the USA though, it seems very plausible that basically all american Greco-Roman wrestlers transitioned to Greco-Roman later instead of starting out with it. To be honest, i cannot even name many successful american Greco-Roman wrestlers apart from Jeff Blatnick, Dennis Koslowski and Rulon Gardner period. Even after checking the list of olympic medalists in Greco-Roman, it seems to me that Americans aren't very prolific in this style.

KBE6EKCTAH_CCP said:
I also prefer the skillset and strength developed in greco. Being strong with hand fighting, arm entrapment, clinching, and just general upper body control will be helpful in any combat situation.

However, in an open ruleset, freestyle will win because they will go to the legs. Nobody outside of greco clinches up with a Greco guy, it's suicide.
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What do you mean by open ruleset though?
 
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Patrick Jane said:
I'm not american but european and i don't even understand the precise ruleset of american folkstyle wrestling. Since wrestling is a school sport in the USA though, it seems very plausible that basically all american Greco-Roman wrestlers transitioned to Greco-Roman later instead of starting out with it. To be honest, i cannot even name many successful american Greco-Roman wrestlers apart from Jeff Blatnick, Dennis Koslowski and Rulon Gardner period. Even after checking the list of olympic medalists in Greco-Roman, it seems to me that Americans aren't very prolific in this style.
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Greg Gibson was another one that, if I recall, was a world champion in sambo, Greco and freestyle. I know he did very well in all three styles.

Scholastic wrestling's greatest emphasis, you could say, is on mat-wrestling and control. You get points for escaping to your feet, you don't get stood up on the mat if you can succeed in bellying out for a little bit, you don't get exposure points or contact falls and in college, you actually get points for how long you "ride" the opponent. It is probably part of the reason that American wrestlers are so known for their ground control in MMA (not that other freestyle wrestlers from elsewhere have weak ground control).
 
Kforcer said:
Greg Gibson was another one that, if I recall, was a world champion in sambo, Greco and freestyle. I know he did very well in all three styles.

Scholastic wrestling's greatest emphasis, you could say, is on mat-wrestling and control. You get points for escaping to your feet, you don't get stood up on the mat if you can succeed in bellying out for a little bit, you don't get exposure points or contact falls and in college, you actually get points for how long you "ride" the opponent. It is probably part of the reason that American wrestlers are so known for their ground control in MMA (not that other freestyle wrestlers from elsewhere have weak ground control).
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That sounds like a very cool ruleset. From how you describe it and what i've seen of it footage-wise i think i'd prefer it over freestyle.
 
Patrick Jane said:
That sounds like a very cool ruleset. From how you describe it and what i've seen of it footage-wise i think i'd prefer it over freestyle.
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Yeah, I like freestyle a lot, but I personally think some of the rules make it unnecessarily convoluted. Most of all, I'd like to see them have more time to work on the ground (as they once did).
 
Patrick Jane said:
I'm not american but european and i don't even understand the precise ruleset of american folkstyle wrestling. Since wrestling is a school sport in the USA though, it seems very plausible that basically all american Greco-Roman wrestlers transitioned to Greco-Roman later instead of starting out with it. To be honest, i cannot even name many successful american Greco-Roman wrestlers apart from Jeff Blatnick, Dennis Koslowski and Rulon Gardner period. Even after checking the list of olympic medalists in Greco-Roman, it seems to me that Americans aren't very prolific in this style.


What do you mean by open ruleset though?
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In ruleset where all takedowns are allowed.
 
Kforcer said:
Yeah, I like freestyle a lot, but I personally think some of the rules make it unnecessarily convoluted. Most of all, I'd like to see them have more time to work on the ground (as they once did).
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I get the feeling convoluted rulesets which are inconsistent because of arbitrary changes over time are a problem with all olympic grappling styles. Makes me sort of wonder if i want Sambo to be subjected to this.
KBE6EKCTAH_CCP said:
In ruleset where all takedowns are allowed.
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Ahh, i see. I agree with you there. It's kinda obvious that a freestyle wrestler would have an advantage in an effectively freestyle based ruleset.
 
KBE6EKCTAH_CCP said:
I also prefer the skillset and strength developed in greco. Being strong with hand fighting, arm entrapment, clinching, and just general upper body control will be helpful in any combat situation.

However, in an open ruleset, freestyle will win because they will go to the legs. Nobody outside of greco clinches up with a Greco guy, it's suicide.
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According to researchers freestyle and greco athletes have similar level of strength.
Makhov has freestyle base and won two bronze medals in Greco World championships. I have greco background but freestyle wrestlers have also greco training. Greco help freestyle game but not the contrary.
Years ago I had saw a Greco tournament near the beach with national level greco wrestlers. The 66kg weight class was won by a freestyle wrestler from Cuba (Chamizo).

Ps
There are two specific discussions about Olympic wrestling...
 
Patrick Jane said:
I get the feeling convoluted rulesets which are inconsistent because of arbitrary changes over time are a problem with all olympic grappling styles. Makes me sort of wonder if i want Sambo to be subjected to this.
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They are almost certainly going to enforce changes to make it distinct from judo and freestyle, don't you think?
 
Kforcer said:
They are almost certainly going to enforce changes to make it distinct from judo and freestyle, don't you think?
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I bet they will, and even the concept of it is absolutely hilarious to me. The thought of someone attempting to make Sambo distinct from both Judo and freestyle makes me chuckle. Good luck with that. The unfortunate part is that they'll butcher the ruleset with their unnecessary garbage changes as they always do.
 
seatea said:
I can't find any info to confirm this.
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Because it isn't confirmed and won't be for ages yet. OP is excited and hopeful (rightfully so) but it is in no way guaranteed as they haven't had the 2nd meeting yet.
 
Human Bass said:
What is pure about it? Even the name is fake and contrived. It isn't neither greek or roman, just some French dudes imagined "greeks and romans are honorable people, therefore they would ignore the legs". And that's some dumb jump of logic.
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While real Greeks were heel hooking each other and ripping on toe holds in their OG classical challenge matches.
 
It sounds great and all that sambo made it, but realistically how popular will it be?
Seems like Russia would be the only legitimate strong powerhouse in this sport
Sambo in the US is hardly practiced much and the "Olympic team" could be filled with a bunch of wrestlers/judoka who cross train in BJJ or BJJers who train judo and wrestling, or MMA guys
I know there is a number requirement of the countries that practice and govern the sport but in reality, I can't see the level and skill of the athletes being very high
 
Ivaylo Ivanov said:
MMA and any mixed fight styles have proven low viewership ratings, so its highly unlikely Pankration, MMA or anything similar, to make it into IOC.
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Really?

I'd imagine that literally every else would have far fewer viewership and interest than MMA i.e. Judo, BJJ, Sambo, Wrestling, etc.
 
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