its different when your in there

[devante]

something i often have hear floyd mayweather say is its different when your in there, people always say i could get him here or shut him down here or take this away there. But when they are in there, they are unable to do the same things they thought they could before stepping in.

Given that a few people here train guys or assist in training and many of us are experienced in standup tech-strategically- and from firsthand experience. My question is why is it that people are so quick to assume that an opening they see is so eassily exploitable; is it an overconfidence in their own physical skills or tech skills, is it a lack of knowledge (overall) or a lack of understanding of the how/why that person does what they do or is it a lack of respect for the person's abilities or skills.

most people don't preface their statements with any sort of balance, just make their assessment; you just do this or that. I figure if someone does something its because a)they don't know better or b) its because it works; i don't assume that i can or will be able to take adv of any perceived opening, not that i don't see it. Just don't assume its that easy.

 

[Sinister]

One of the best examples of this in the Professional ranks were the bouts between Julio Cesar Chavez and Edwin "Chapo" Rosario, and Chavez and Camacho. In Chapo's bout Camacho kept blabbing about what to do with Chavez. Do this, do that, do the third. When Camacho got in there with Chavez himself, he had a poorer showing against Chavez than Chapo did.

 

[devante]

One of the best examples of this in the Professional ranks were the bouts between Julio Cesar Chavez and Edwin "Chapo" Rosario, and Chavez and Camacho. In Chapo's bout Camacho kept blabbing about what to do with Chavez. Do this, do that, do the third. When Camacho got in there with Chavez himself, he had a poorer showing against Chavez than Chapo did.

why did camacho feel he could do better; do you think he didn't understand how good chavez was or the pressure he applied, did he overestimate his own skills. Why do guys make such broad sweeping comments, w/out prefacing it.

 

[Sinister]

All of the above.

 

[aries]

I think David Haye pretty much discovered that when he fought (ran from Wlad). Pretty much like all other Klitschko victims. It looks a lot easier than it is.

 

[Corey Roberts]

I had this in sparring the other day with a younger lad, lately i've adopted the archie moore cross arm defense and i like to walk forward and put the pressure on.

Afterwards he was saying i'm open for an uppercut to the body, i know this is the case which is why i'm looking to counter off it, but while sparring i never got the opportunity because he would just never throw it. I asked him ''well why didn't you throw it'' and he just shrugged his shoulders and looked puzzled. I knew why he couldn't throw it is because he was in strictly defense only mode because i had him on the back foot not being able to do shit.

The theory is there to beat floyd, jab the lead arm on the inside of the shoulder to open up the angle or use hooks to the lead arm and beat down his body but when it comes to the prac a lot of people fail because nothing is ever really static in boxing and fighting, smart people adjust and change things up. When they get on to what you're doing they'll change tactic and counter punch.

As to why people make these assumptions, i'd say it's just overconfidence and not knowing any better. I used to be guilty of this untill i got my ass handed to me in sparring a couple of times trying to exploit openings i thought were there.

 

[Hucal]

People that do not train are, quite frankly, idiots when it comes to actual fighting. They like to nitpick things that professional fighters should be doing, but are not. This goes to show you that not even professionals can do things that untrained people pick up on.

When you're in there, there are a billion thoughts going through your mind, from tactics you want to try, subtle tells from your opponent, foot work you need to do, etc. All this on top of an adrenaline rush makes it hard to do things you should be doing. It's not obvious what needs to be done when you're in there, even if it's right in front of you.

 

[SAAMAG]

smart people adjust and change things up. When they get on to what you're doing they'll change tactic and counter punch.

As to why people make these assumptions, i'd say it's just overconfidence and not knowing any better.

That's about what I was gonna type. Sums it up well.

 

[devante]

I had this in sparring the other day with a younger lad, lately i've adopted the archie moore cross arm defense and i like to walk forward and put the pressure on.

Afterwards he was saying i'm open for an uppercut to the body, i know this is the case which is why i'm looking to counter off it, but while sparring i never got the opportunity because he would just never throw it. I asked him ''well why didn't you throw it'' and he just shrugged his shoulders and looked puzzled. I knew why he couldn't throw it is because he was in strictly defense only mode because i had him on the back foot not being able to do shit.
The theory is there to beat floyd, jab the lead arm on the inside of the shoulder to open up the angle or use hooks to the lead arm and beat down his body but when it comes to the prac a lot of people fail because nothing is ever really static in boxing and fighting, smart people adjust and change things up. When they get on to what you're doing they'll change tactic and counter punch.

As to why people make these assumptions, i'd say it's just overconfidence and not knowing any better. I used to be guilty of this untill i got my ass handed to me in sparring a couple of times trying to exploit openings i thought were there.

i find this to be the case when i have sparred certain people who may say this is open or u can't land this; but then i do land this or the thing they said i should be open for isn't open or they don't throw. My whole thing is to get a point across about what someone is open to you have to be able to apply that very thing; otherwise you come off as not being as good as you say because you weren't able
to or were unwilling to take adv of that opening.

As far as making an assumption, i think i see openings or holes; but i assume that there is a reason why someone can get away with it or why they do it the way they do whether its to take adv of a strength or mask a weakness. So i try to figure that out before i just go about the business of pointing out openings. Also i don't think im good enough to assume i can do anything...i have certain amount of belief; but im just as aware or respectful of that other person faith in themselves and their ability.

 

[SAAMAG]

One thing you have to remember as well is that just about anyone has the ability to identify idiosynchrasies which COULD allow for a counter attack or increase the probability of being hit.

But as stated--fighting is fluid and dynamic. It's also heavily dictated by ones mental and physical state during the activity.

In other words--knowing where the openings are doesn't equate to being able to exploit those openings.

 

[fightingrabbit]

Too many variables for the human brain to comprehend. By too many variables, i mean like infinitely too many. Yes, a trained eye may be able to catch these recurring patterns and openings in an opponent, and they can probably conjure up a foolproof plan that would LIKELY work. But since we are not robots, and our brains are not calculators. Our game plans come out to be generalized (Which they have to be) and thus flawed.

This is not exactly a bad thing though. I always hear advice that cornermen should not get too in depth and into detail in telling his fighter what he should be doing the next round for this exact reason. Because like i said, our brains don't comprehend things in detail like that. Our minds will accept the general idea, then our bodies will go out and do the actual calculating.

No human's perfect, but they will try and think up perfect solutions. "You do this and i'll do this" But you have to think about why they say it. Even people with untrained eyes. They're not necessarily wrong. Its just human error.

 

[fightingrabbit]

Another example is predetermining a winner of a fight. Think about the times you thought you knew for sure who was going to win a fight. Then think about the times when you were sorely mistaken. Why did you think the fighter you picked was going to win for sure?

If you can answer these questions, then you can see what the hell people are thinking when they think they see exploitable openings and flaws in someone. But all i can say is, no-one is ever really wrong and no-ones ever really right. It's just circumstances beyond your comprehension and control.

 

[Marvin Covar]

It's easier to point out flaws from a distance but it's harder to do so and exploit them when you're in up close. I don't think they think it's easily exploitable but rather easy to point out. I'm almost certain that seasoned fighters know that it's different when you're actually there. As for know-it-all keyboard warrior fans, I'm not so sure.

 

[Sinister]

Another example is predetermining a winner of a fight. Think about the times you thought you knew for sure who was going to win a fight. Then think about the times when you were sorely mistaken. Why did you think the fighter you picked was going to win for sure?

If you can answer these questions, then you can see what the hell people are thinking when they think they see exploitable openings and flaws in someone. But all i can say is, no-one is ever really wrong and no-ones ever really right. It's just circumstances beyond your comprehension and control.

I don't know, man. All those people said Ricky Hatton had "the style" to beat Floyd. I never once thought that, and anyone who did was pretty wrong.

 

[fightingrabbit]

I don't know, man. All those people said Ricky Hatton had "the style" to beat Floyd. I never once thought that, and anyone who did was pretty wrong.

That's what i mean. That's what happens if you get too deep into style vs style discussions or things of that nature. Sometimes you get "surprising" results. But it could always happen backwards too.

 

[fightingrabbit]

[/B]
i find this to be the case when i have sparred certain people who may say this is open or u can't land this; but then i do land this or the thing they said i should be open for isn't open or they don't throw. My whole thing is to get a point across about what someone is open to you have to be able to apply that very thing; otherwise you come off as not being as good as you say because you weren't able
to or were unwilling to take adv of that opening.

As far as making an assumption, i think i see openings or holes; but i assume that there is a reason why someone can get away with it or why they do it the way they do whether its to take adv of a strength or mask a weakness. So i try to figure that out before i just go about the business of pointing out openings. Also i don't think im good enough to assume i can do anything...i have certain amount of belief; but im just as aware or respectful of that other person faith in themselves and their ability.

I assume you mean lesser experienced people that you've sparred. It could be just them talking out of their asses. Or may be you really are leaving an opening and they see it, but can't capitalize. Which could certainly be the case. If its bugging you, i suggest you box their ears off every time you spar, till you've convinced them you're not leaving any openings!

 

[SAAMAG]

Yes Devante. You SHOULD do that. ; )

 

[Rink]

yeah it's different how our brain perceives thins when we're in the ring. Like, a guy may seem much faster when you're in the ring with him, than when you were just watching him. You see flaws in one's games but can't seem to exploit them when you're actually fighting. Like, sometimes I see this guy spar and he seems to drop his rear hand a lot and open himself up to lefthooks (he also get hits a lot with them) but when I go against him, I can't land the same punch that he was so vunerable against.

But I also had the opposite happen. I see a guy and think he'll whoop my ass but I do a lot better than I expect when I step in the ring.