"It makes no sense that 12-6 elbows are banned"

[rj144]

While they are not as deadly as some believe, they are inherently more dangerous than a punch or a kick. Thin in terms of psi. A shin has a surface area or about 48 square inches. Displace 48 lbs over that area, it's 1 psi. Now the tip of an elbow is we'll say 4 square inches. Displace 48 lbs over that area, it's 12 psi. While my numbers are perfect it can be used to show that less area of impact with the same weigh equals a greater concentration pressure.

In theory, this makes it much easier to break an orbital or fracture a skull. In my opinion, injury stoppages (orbitals, broken bones with a sub going on, and ligament tears) are the worst way for a fight to end. I would rather see a decision, sub or KO.

**Disclaimer - I am not a doctor so everything I said may be horse crap but it sounded good in my head**

Yes, elbows have less surface area, but how is a 12-6 elbow different than any other elbow? That's the question...not whether elbows are more dangerous.

 

[Taric]

Throwing a 12-6 elbow is no more dangerous than throwing a 9-3 elbow.
Dumb rules are dumb.

 

[Paradigm]

elbows to the spine and neck. i think not. paralysis awaits. massively favour wrasslers of course.

What about 12-6 elbows to the ribs, clavicle or thigh?

While they are not as deadly as some believe, they are inherently more dangerous than a punch or a kick. Thin in terms of psi. A shin has a surface area or about 48 square inches. Displace 48 lbs over that area, it's 1 psi. Now the tip of an elbow is we'll say 4 square inches. Displace 48 lbs over that area, it's 12 psi. While my numbers are perfect it can be used to show that less area of impact with the same weigh equals a greater concentration pressure.

In theory, this makes it much easier to break an orbital or fracture a skull. In my opinion, injury stoppages (orbitals, broken bones with a sub going on, and ligament tears) are the worst way for a fight to end. I would rather see a decision, sub or KO.

**Disclaimer - I am not a doctor so everything I said may be horse crap but it sounded good in my head**

So 11-5 or 1-7 elbows are safer then?

 

[chinarice]

Jones got DQ'ed because he beat up a handicapped man. Don't butter it up to be anything else.

lol @ the pic.... sooooo blood can't go into someone eyes from anything other than a 12-6 elbow?

 

[xterm11]

Yes, elbows have less surface area, but how is a 12-6 elbow different than any other elbow? That's the question...not whether elbows are more dangerous.

Move your elbow from the ceiling to the floor in a 12-6 fashion and press it against the table. How much of you arm/elbow contacts the table?

Now do it in the motion of a 9-3 elbow. How much of your elbow/forearm contacts the table?

This is the surface area difference I am talking about. Either way it is just my opinion based on my understanding (though limited) of force and physics. I think 12-6 elbows are much more damaging with a much higher chance of significant injury than any other elbow strike.

 

[xterm11]

Move your elbow from the ceiling to the floor in a 12-6 fashion and press it against the table. How much of you arm/elbow contacts the table?

Now do it in the motion of a 9-3 elbow. How much of your elbow/forearm contacts the table?

This is the surface area difference I am talking about. Either way it is just my opinion based on my understanding (though limited) of force and physics. I think 12-6 elbows are much more damaging with a much higher chance of significant injury than any other elbow strike.

To clarify on this I am talking a 9-3 elbow being throw by pulling the elbow in a straight line path where the other elbow is being thrown by extending your right arm out 90 degrees at the shoulder and pulling back and throwing it directly away from you (how most throw elbows from the mount)

 

[chunglii]

I miss it

Jeeeeeezus fucking christ...

12-6 should be legal, but for sure not to the back of the head. Holy shit.

 

[Thunderflash500]

Not sure if srs.




This.

Soo sooo sooo fucking stupid.

You're exactly like one of the people who before the ufc would argue Karate death touches are real and ninjas would beat up anyone. The only reason they are banned is because some d-bag watched a dude break bricks and thought it would be lethal. He was an idiot using idiot logic. Sort of like....

 

[TheGZA]

 

[Paradigm]

Move your elbow from the ceiling to the floor in a 12-6 fashion and press it against the table. How much of you arm/elbow contacts the table?

Now do it in the motion of a 9-3 elbow. How much of your elbow/forearm contacts the table?

This is the surface area difference I am talking about. Either way it is just my opinion based on my understanding (though limited) of force and physics. I think 12-6 elbows are much more damaging with a much higher chance of significant injury than any other elbow strike.

To clarify on this I am talking a 9-3 elbow being throw by pulling the elbow in a straight line path where the other elbow is being thrown by extending your right arm out 90 degrees at the shoulder and pulling back and throwing it directly away from you (how most throw elbows from the mount)

You're describing a 3-9 elbow from the perspective of the person throwing it.

And if you're good enough at throwing elbows, you can land with the tip and not the flat part on the forearm side...it's why some guys are good at using them to cut open people instead of concussing them.

So 11-5 or 1-7 elbows are ok in your opinion?

 

[Luger]

Jeeeeeezus fucking christ...

12-6 should be legal, but for sure not to the back of the head. Holy shit.

I'm sure he felt invigorated

 

[Davemeddlehed]

The elbows are a lethal weapon at that point, it all directs to fighter safety. In the end the last thing anyone wants is for a fighter to suffer a permanent injury or a death.

These kinds of posts come from people who have no formal training. Do you know how hard it would be to fit the elbow into the eye socket from that position? You'd have to contort your torso, or sit back on the other guy's hips, and then lean down, and then, with a very limited range of motion, you could then sort of fit your elbow into the eye socket if that's what you were trying to do, but it wouldn't work very well what with him moving around and whatnot.

 

[Deleted member 196663]

It makes perfect sense that 12-6 elbows are banned.

 

[MusclesMarinara]

While they are not as deadly as some believe, they are inherently more dangerous than a punch or a kick. Thin in terms of psi. A shin has a surface area or about 48 square inches. Displace 48 lbs over that area, it's 1 psi. Now the tip of an elbow is we'll say 4 square inches. Displace 48 lbs over that area, it's 12 psi. While my numbers are perfect it can be used to show that less area of impact with the same weigh equals a greater concentration pressure.

In theory, this makes it much easier to break an orbital or fracture a skull. In my opinion, injury stoppages (orbitals, broken bones with a sub going on, and ligament tears) are the worst way for a fight to end. I would rather see a decision, sub or KO.

**Disclaimer - I am not a doctor so everything I said may be horse crap but it sounded good in my head**

Somewhere a mechanical engineer is crying.

I understand you are throwing a guesstimation at it but think a little. You are implying the shin lands over a 2" x 24" area. That doesn't seem possible. Perhaps 2" x 4" or 8 " sq.

I'm also going to imagine most people can kick much harder than they punch.

Force= mass. acceleration
However what should be measured here is kinetic energy.
KE= 1/2 MV^2

Then you can distribute that number over area to get an idea of what kind of damage the strike can cause.

 

[BraNerd]

While they are not as deadly as some believe, they are inherently more dangerous than a punch or a kick. Thin in terms of psi. A shin has a surface area or about 48 square inches. Displace 48 lbs over that area, it's 1 psi. Now the tip of an elbow is we'll say 4 square inches. Displace 48 lbs over that area, it's 12 psi. While my numbers are perfect it can be used to show that less area of impact with the same weigh equals a greater concentration pressure.

In theory, this makes it much easier to break an orbital or fracture a skull. In my opinion, injury stoppages (orbitals, broken bones with a sub going on, and ligament tears) are the worst way for a fight to end. I would rather see a decision, sub or KO.

**Disclaimer - I am not a doctor so everything I said may be horse crap but it sounded good in my head**

What MVP did to Cyborg backs this up. His knees are like pickaxes.

 

[TrainInVain]

Every opponent of Jon has the risk of going blind.
But not because of elbows.

 

[Paradigm]

What MVP did to Cyborg backs this up. His knees are like pickaxes.

So now knees to the head are bad as well? May as well get rid of combat sports altogether since people could get hurt.

Along with cheerleading, horse jumping, auto racing, contact sports, etc...

 

[billyklubs]

While they are not as deadly as some believe, they are inherently more dangerous than a punch or a kick. Thin in terms of psi. A shin has a surface area or about 48 square inches. Displace 48 lbs over that area, it's 1 psi. Now the tip of an elbow is we'll say 4 square inches. Displace 48 lbs over that area, it's 12 psi. While my numbers are perfect it can be used to show that less area of impact with the same weigh equals a greater concentration pressure.

In theory, this makes it much easier to break an orbital or fracture a skull. In my opinion, injury stoppages (orbitals, broken bones with a sub going on, and ligament tears) are the worst way for a fight to end. I would rather see a decision, sub or KO.

**Disclaimer - I am not a doctor so everything I said may be horse crap but it sounded good in my head**

Your math seems backwards, 48 psi for shin, 12 for elbow. Maybe we should ban kicks that land shin first...

 

[$uicideboy$]

The elbows are a lethal weapon at that point, it all directs to fighter safety. In the end the last thing anyone wants is for a fighter to suffer a permanent injury or a death.

except hendo and all his fans

 

[Davemeddlehed]

While they are not as deadly as some believe, they are inherently more dangerous than a punch or a kick. Thin in terms of psi. A shin has a surface area or about 48 square inches. Displace 48 lbs over that area, it's 1 psi. Now the tip of an elbow is we'll say 4 square inches. Displace 48 lbs over that area, it's 12 psi. While my numbers are perfect it can be used to show that less area of impact with the same weigh equals a greater concentration pressure.

In theory, this makes it much easier to break an orbital or fracture a skull. In my opinion, injury stoppages (orbitals, broken bones with a sub going on, and ligament tears) are the worst way for a fight to end. I would rather see a decision, sub or KO.

**Disclaimer - I am not a doctor so everything I said may be horse crap but it sounded good in my head**

Your math is off.

The 48sq/in only applies if the whole of the shin is in contact with the target. Since we're discussing head trauma here not even half that would be in contact with the head at the moment of impact. It's closer to 12sq/in if we're being generous, for the shin that is, which brings us up to roughly a PSI of 4.

The arm/shoulder isn't near as powerful as the driving force behind a kick, the quadricep. For purposes of ease let's say the upper body on average is half as strong as the lower body.

Going by the initial figure of 48 PSI for a shin kick, cut that in half and we get 24PSI. So if roughy 4sq/in contacts at 24PSI we get an average of 6. 6 over 4(and again, these aren't really accurate numbers just a quick example on bio mechanics) isn't very much, if at all.