Issues where you're of two minds

Abortion:

When I was in College, I went down on a house trip to Mexico for Spring Break. While there, I called my girlfriend and she seemed upset. After a few minutes, she told me that not only was she pregnant, she had waited until I left and got an abortion without telling me or else anyone about it. Now, I'm 100% pro-choice and always have been... And there's literally zero question in my mind that abortion should be legal. But man, that fucked me up good. I wasn't ok for a solid month or so. In fact, all these years later, it still hurts even thinking about it. Even though I believe fully in a womans right to choose, it's difficult to think rationally about the issue, especially having experienced that.

Yeah I'm definitely pro-choice, but the idea that everything is up to the woman is kind of bullshit to me. Don't want the kid and he does? No problem get an abortion he can't stop you. Do want the kid and he doesn't? No problem have the kid and put him on the hook for child support, he can't stop you. Doesn't seem fair imo

Abortion may be the most complex issue our country deals with and I believe it is still the clearest line between the parties today as they both still campaign to extreme ends while not really acknowledging just how rough it is. I can say the idea that it's simple as a woman's right bothers me as it affects many people like your example as well as the child being carried (if you acknowledge it as a life). I can't imagine how you felt about something like that. I remember me and gf getting into a conversation about almost the same issue. She asked me if I'd break up with her if she got pregnant and decided to abort it without telling me about it. I was silent for about a minute and she took it very harshly and seemed to not acknowledge at all how onesided such a serious scenario as that was. She touted the my choice, my body stuff and cried/ect. I didn't really concede to the point and we set it to the side. Sometme after, she mentioned how she didn't really think of it from another view and I wasn't surprised at all. Politics has drowned it (for a woman) as you are either a murderer or complete decider in a very very serious situation and should somewhat celebrate it as a right. It does injustice to the discussion that needs to be had.
 
Last edited:
Abortion may be the most complex issue our country deals with and I believe it is still the clearest line between the parties today as they both still campaign to extreme ends while not really acknowledging just how rough it is. I can say the idea that it's simple as a woman's right bothers me as it affects many people like your example as well as the child being carried (if you acknowledge it as a life). I can't imagine how you felt about something like that. I remember me and gf getting into a conversation about almost the same issue. She asked me if I'd break up with her if she got pregnant and decided to abort it without telling me about it. I was silent for about a minute and she took it very harshly and seemed to not acknowledge at all how onesided such a serious scenario as that was. She touted the my choice, my body stuff and cried/ect. I didn't really concede to the point and we set it to the side. Sometme after, she mentioned how she didn't really think of it from another view and I wasn't surprised at all. Politics has drowned it (for a woman) as you are either a murderer or complete decider in a very very serious situation and should somewhat celebrate it as a right. It does injustice to the discussion that needs to be had.
Abortion is only complex for those with feelings. Abortion should be illegal except for rape, incest, deformed fetus, psychopathic fetus or low IQ fetus. If there is a chance the mother will die in child birth then so be it, she should die and the baby should live. There is plenty of room for all these healthy babies. You don't know anything lol prepare to get PTSD kid.
 
Abortion may be the most complex issue our country deals with and I believe it is still the clearest line between the parties today as they both still campaign to extreme ends while not really acknowledging just how rough it is. I can say the idea that it's simple as a woman's right bothers me as it affects many people like your example as well as the child being carried (if you acknowledge it as a life). I can't imagine how you felt about something like that. I remember me and gf getting into a conversation about almost the same issue. She asked me if I'd break up with her if she got pregnant and decided to abort it without telling me about it. I was silent for about a minute and she took it very harshly and seemed to not acknowledge at all how onesided such a serious scenario as that was. She touted the my choice, my body stuff and cried/ect. I didn't really concede to the point and we set it to the side. Sometme after, she mentioned how she didn't really think of it from another view and I wasn't surprised at all. Politics has drowned it (for a woman) as you are either a murderer or complete decider in a very very serious situation and should somewhat celebrate it as a right. It does injustice to the discussion that needs to be had.


The far left goes pretty quickly from rights to everyone, to giving rights to one group by stripping rights from another. They just decide whos rights matter "more" and that's it.

It's pretty difficult to decide who should have what amount of control in a situation like this, but to me that doesn't mean you just give one side all the control and the other has no rights whatsoever. We need to try a little harder than that.
 
The far left goes pretty quickly from rights to everyone, to giving rights to one group by stripping rights from another. They just decide whos rights matter "more" and that's it.

It's pretty difficult to decide who should have what amount of control in a situation like this, but to me that doesn't mean you just give one side all the control and the other has no rights whatsoever. We need to try a little harder than that.

i see no issues with women having autonomous control over their own bodies and what is growing in them during the pregnancy stages. Now once it is born, i can see the argument for the man to have more say as valid.
 
I was actually thinking about this just the other day. I get what you're saying, but what are people supposed to share on social media? Seems like you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Share positive things and you're putting up a false facade that's not a true representation of life; you're egotistical and just faking happiness and prosperity. Share negative things and nobody gives a shit and you get relegated to the crybaby category. Social media, just like actually talking to people in person, isn't for broadcasting reality, it never has been. That's not how humans work. You'll be judged no matter what you post up, and people are aware of this.

Youre right of course as you most often are. I should have elaborated more on the bright side of it. I appreciate social media mostly for its ability to bring together people from all walks of life, and to become a melting pot for differing views and opinions. I think it has the potential to make much positive change.
My take on the bad side of it is merely an observation and doesnt actually bother me. Its not so much only displaying the good side of ones life as it is, in my opinion, the excessive focus on self thats encouraged. The language I used was probably too critical in tone. Im very egotistical myself but not in the sense that I feel special or important, moreso that I think I know the way things should be. Perhaps that pedanticism is worse than the behaviour of the selfie generation. Either way, when looked at in context of the vast picture, its all trivial in the end.
Much respect and thanks for the thoughtful discussion.
 
i see no issues with women having autonomous control over their own bodies and what is growing in them during the pregnancy stages. Now once it is born, i can see the argument for the man to have more say as valid.
I don't agree with the woman having complete control, but I don't know that there's a good solution. I can't see forcing someone to have a child, at the same time the fact that a woman can just go and have an abortion and not even consult the man seems fucked up to me. If there going to have that level of freedom, then a man should be able to decide not to be involved without being put on the hook for child support. The woman just has total control eithrr way.
 
Politics has drowned it (for a woman) as you are either a murderer or complete decider in a very very serious situation and should somewhat celebrate it as a right. It does injustice to the discussion that needs to be had.
It's a shame that politics has polarized it, because the elegance of trimesters provides us a natural way to transfer rights initially from the mother to finally the state (on behalf of the baby), with a large middle ground. 1st trimester= not viable on its own. 2nd= approaching viability. 3rd= generally viable. It's a great framework to resolve a conflict and preserve some level of rights for all parties. But that's apparently not good enough for people. Sigh.
 
Abortion is the big one for me. I believe you're not doing a kid any favors by bringing them into a life that will be absolutely miserable and I don't believe life begins when sperm hits egg. OTOH since it is such an emotionally charged topic I question some of the science behind it like when a fetus shows characteristics of being a person and how often abortions are conducted after that time.

Immigration is another one. I do believe we should help out fellow man in need, but as many resources as we have, they are still finite and when we are in a situation where we are having a difficult time gainfully employing our own people it seems to be counterproductive to flood the job market with even more people especially the low skilled.

Guns are pretty much the last one. All for minimal gun control, but gun nuttiness and all the CT's that go along with it is kind of creepy and smacks of high levels of paranoia.
 
Sign me up for another person conflicted on the abortion issue. Similarly, I find euthanasia as a difficult topic a lot of the time because I view it more of a slippery slope issue than the death penalty.

Most other things I find pretty cut and dry.
 
Abortion is only complex for those with feelings. Abortion should be illegal except for rape, incest, deformed fetus, psychopathic fetus or low IQ fetus. If there is a chance the mother will die in child birth then so be it, she should die and the baby should live. There is plenty of room for all these healthy babies.

Last I checked, humans have feelings. Even if you try to make it an objective issue (which is very hard with the media as I said), there still are conflicts and things to sort out.

I don't even know what you're arguing. What underlying stance are you defending the bold with? That the fetus is life, correct?

Also, I never said there isn't plenty room for healthy babies. I didn't even really display my stance in my post. I was replying to a poster saying how the issue has been politicized to extremes where people/the media aren't even having real conversations anymore.

You don't know anything lol prepare to get PTSD kid.


Explain more. Are you saying I don't know anything and then laughing at me? Who is PTSD kid?
 
Sign me up for another person conflicted on the abortion issue. Similarly, I find euthanasia as a difficult topic a lot of the time because I view it more of a slippery slope issue than the death penalty.

Most other things I find pretty cut and dry.

I'm against the death penalty but I can say the euthanasia is another similar problem I think may begin getting more traction in our society. Healthcare is a huge issue and we are going to begin hearing about the large costs being at near end of life care.
 
Almost all issues.

Healthcare:
I think healthcare is something all nation states should strive to provide for all their citizens. But I'm also very aware of the inefficiencies and reduced incentives inherent to public bureaucracies, which I'm currently experiencing first hand. I think private institutions most of the time will deliver a much better product, than a publicly administered one, with certain exceptions (like foreign policy, law enforcement, courts of law etc).
I support public healthcare, but if I'm ever required to be hospitalised (or someone close to me is) I'm going to a private hospital.

Death penalty
In theory I can think of a lot of crimes where I want to see the criminal executed. But I know it's very ineffecient and unethical (because of the chance for false convictions) in practice.

Guns
I want to be able to own a gun (and any other weapon), but I don't want anyone else to be able to. This is because I know I'm a sensible and resposible human being, and everyone else is insane. Not something I feel strongly about though.

And many more, in particular on social issues I'm very two sided.
 
Abortion may be the most complex issue our country deals with and I believe it is still the clearest line between the parties today as they both still campaign to extreme ends while not really acknowledging just how rough it is.

That's probably true at the politician level, but only 68% of Democrats are pro-choice, and 31% of Republicans are. So it's a pretty mixed issue at the level of voters.
 
That's probably true at the politician level, but only 68% of Democrats are pro-choice, and 31% of Republicans are. So it's a pretty mixed issue at the level of voters.


I never would've guessed numbers like that.
 
So basically you're concerned with Israel existing as a legitimate state/homeland, but as a democracy and with the same right to self defense that other states enjoy? Sorry for all the questions, I'm just trying to understand where you're conflicted.
I have family that don't want to give up the West Bank, so I'm conflicted over that. I used to feel as they do. I still feel that the Palestinians are untrustworthy and won't abide by any agreement, no matter what.
 
I have family that don't want to give up the West Bank, so I'm conflicted over that. I used to feel as they do. I still feel that the Palestinians are untrustworthy and won't abide by any agreement, no matter what.
Appreciated, that's a very personal dilemma.
 
The death penalty. I have no moral objections to the state putting some piece of shit to death, but what troubles me is the fact that so many innocent people have been convicted of crimes, and I'm sure there's quite a few who have been executed for those crimes. What really fucked my head up about the issue is when the FBI admitted that they were full of crap on so many cases in regards to DNA evidence.

Not only that, but has proven to not be a deterrent and is its incredibly expensive for taxpayers.
 
In this day and age I think it's pretty fair to say that most abortions are selfish acts.

This isn't 1950 where a female adulterer or mother out of wedlock is a social pariah and contraceptives aren't readily available: even emergency contraception is available otc.

All the talk of "the woman's body", what about the life of the person growing inside her? Who protects that life?
 
Back
Top