Isn't the kneebar relatively safe?

[Shemhazai]

Because if you get someone who gets out of control on an armbar, you are out a few weeks. You get someone who goes nuts on a kneebar and you are out 6k and 12 months.

Maybe you can train again after a few weeks, but a serious armbar can give you long-term or even permanent elbow problems. Mine hurt for a year and a half.

 

[Zankou]

If anything, btw, I think kneebar is the least dangerous leglock. The only reason footlocks are considered safe is they are usually done so badly. Very easy to seriously injure the foot and ankle, they have tons of weak little bones and ligaments.

 

[Ice 9 Cobra]

I think it's hard to just rip a kneebar, because the leg is fucking strong in that direction. That's why they typically come on slower

 

[Zankou]

Not only do they come on slower, you typically need more force. You really got to push hard, the joint is inherently strong.

Interestingly I think that the kind of kneebar that is Oli's specialty comes on a lot faster, where you "hump" the leg as the kneebar. Because you are driving the hips, and it doesn't necessarily look like a kneebar, there is less gap between "eh?" and "arrrgghhhhh!"

 

[SuperSuperRambo]

only real unsafe leglock is the heel hook. knee bars, toe holds, achillies holds should all be legal from blue belt on up imo. i could see a heel hook as being a cop out in sparring. if someone even attempts one on me in sparring ill tap rather than try getting out of it even if its poorly applied. its not worth risking my knee getting blown out to avoid getting tapped in sparring.

Toe hold is dangerous. We've had a couple of injuries at my academy from toe holds which weren't even cranked, but caused injuries (I was the cause in one case). Don't get me wrong, I think they should be legal, but I think we can still acknowledge that they are dangerous. I feel the same about knee reaping. I think it should be allowed, but I understand that it can cause injury, since I once suffered a knee sprain from getting my knee reaped in a rather aggressive way.

By the way I think Dirty Holt raised a good point when it comes to the dangers of leg locks. An overszealous armbar or choke usually doesn't fuck up your limb for the rest of your life. Meanwhile I still can't do triangles on my left side because of my stupid knee.

 

[SuperSuperRambo]

I was told by a crazy russian that every leg lock should have at least a subtle twisting motion in it to remove the slack.

For example, in the kneebar, one hand should grab the heel, push down, and twist alittle outward.

That's how I learned it too.

 

[ABC]

Maybe a straight knee bar isn't that bad but what is your percentage of success with a straight knee bar. To really do it right, you need to cross it over, pull the person's foot to the side of you head, arch and twist at the same time. Those are the knee bars that you are going to find success with, the ones that hyperextend and twist the knee.

 

[Ice 9 Cobra]

Even a knee bar where you twist the knee isn't that dangerous, because you still need to hyperextend it before you can pressure the joint and twist. At that point it's the stubbornness of not tapping and not the submission doing the damage

 

[ABC]

In many states, the only submission allowed below the waist for ammy MMA is the straight Knee bar.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

That basically means the same thing you originally said. What's wrong with relying on leg locks? Learn to defend it, and if it works for them, then let that be their game. There's no proper guideline on how to grapple, just people's preferences and ideologies getting in the way. Just because the Gracies weren't leg lock specialists doesn't mean BJJ still has to follow their philosophy. In fact, I'd prefer the guy who's good at leg locks than the guy who uses the Berimbolo, at least there's practical purposes.

This is coming from a guy who just does triangle chokes too. Haha, I support all submissions at any level, as long as they're safe.

well, nothing if you are a high level guy, but bjj as everything has its learning time, and guard passing as well as other aspects of the game are very important in the art of bjj, you must learn it to be high level... besides, leg locks are fine, I love them, but its also truth that they leave you sometimes in bad positions..

 

[soda_popinski]

I was told once that leg locks are just a cop out anyways, I haven't used them live since.

I was told once arm bars are just a cop out, so i havent used them live since.

 

[envee]

yes i think the kneebars are safer than heel hooks. with heel hooks it takes little effort to do damage moreso than the effort that is required to take the kneebar. i think this has something to do with the bicep twisting motion is less coordinated than the motions of a kneebar take.

 

[Kid Sampson]

well, nothing if you are a high level guy, but bjj as everything has its learning time, and guard passing as well as other aspects of the game are very important in the art of bjj, you must learn it to be high level... besides, leg locks are fine, I love them, but its also truth that they leave you sometimes in bad positions..

I know I've gone for plenty of arm bars that ended up with me getting my guard passed. I actually feel safer going for leg-locks because the only ones at my club that can submit me from 50/50 are my brown belt instructors.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

I know I've gone for plenty of arm bars that ended up with me getting my guard passed. I actually feel safer going for leg-locks because the only ones at my club that can submit me from 50/50 are my brown belt instructors.

I was talking to some positions where you are on top and sacrifice that position to hunt for a leg lock...