Isn't catch wrestling superior to BJJ?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by spacetime, Dec 21, 2016.

  1. spacetime

    spacetime Silver Belt

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    It teaches takedowns that actually work against wrestlers, and the submissions are still there on the ground. some of the best practitioners in the art CRUSHED the Judo founder Kano Jigeros top students (he even sent a new one after the first got crushed, who also lost), and the Gracies got beaten too by Sakuraba, back when they were relevant.
     
  2. Uchi Mata

    Uchi Mata Preaching the gospel of heel hooks and left kicks

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    Better for what? There are a lot more BJJ champs who are ADCC and MMA champs than there are Catch wrestlers. In fact, the only really successful Catch guys I can think of in MMA are Barnett and Sakuraba. It's a fine style, but as always it's more about the practitioner than the style.

    Tell you what. Go study Catch intensively for 5 years, and see how many BJJ experts you can beat up on. Because in theory every martial art thinks they're the best, but very few can prove it.
     
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  3. spacetime

    spacetime Silver Belt

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    But maybe that has to do with popularity....?
     
  4. spacetime

    spacetime Silver Belt

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    Can you name one advantage in BJJ as codified system over Catch wrestling?
     
  5. fanboysareevil

    fanboysareevil Green Belt

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    1.5/10

    It's Christmas bro. Step it up. No one has time for this.
     
  6. lechien

    lechien Gold Belt

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    The ibjjf point system.
    It encourages positional dominance but also allows you to fight of your back.
    Let assume you do not know.
    2 points for a takedown with 3 seconds control on top.
    3 points for guard pass.
    2 point of knee on the belly
    4 points for mount, back control or back mount.
     
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  7. Pierced7681

    Pierced7681 Black Belt

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    Isn't Mighty Mouse a catch wrestler under Matt Hume?

    He's probably the most elite champ in the UFC currently
     
  8. Uchi Mata

    Uchi Mata Preaching the gospel of heel hooks and left kicks

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    From my point of view, the guard and the notion of focusing on positional dominance rather than jumping on a sub are both advantages. I've never seen Catch show much defense off the back, and what I have seen of their subs often appears very gimmicky. In general, a lot of Catch matwork seems to be based more on pain compliance than creating a mechanical advantage, and I just don't much trust pain alone as a way of controlling tough, trained fighters.
     
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  9. Russky

    Russky Green Belt

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    People who train no-gi can be better in no-gi than people who train in gi. Surprise.
     
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  10. Uchi Mata

    Uchi Mata Preaching the gospel of heel hooks and left kicks

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    He is a good example for sure, though like almost all fighters it's pretty hard to pin them down to just one style. DJ also wrestled with a lot of success in high school, and judging from his guard passing (a skill that doesn't really exist in Catch since the guard doesn't really exist in Catch as such) there's a fair amount of BJJ thrown in there as well. That's a big reason these discussions are often dumb, because basically no one is pure enough of lineage to make style comparisons meaningful. You look at the most successful group of BJJ fighters in MMA history, BTT/Carlson Gracie, and they spent a lot of time learning wrestling from Daryl Gholar. Does that mean they no longer represent BJJ? Barnett has trained a ton of BJJ with the Machados, does that mean he can't represent Catch?

    I probably shouldn't have responded to the obvious troll TS.
     
  11. spacetime

    spacetime Silver Belt

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    Doesn't all BJJ schools offer both Gi and No-gi training?
     
  12. Russky

    Russky Green Belt

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    Most of them don't, or have very few no-gi classes. Takedowns practice is usually a joke, too.
     
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  13. spacetime

    spacetime Silver Belt

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    Isn't their takedown philosophy to simply suck on to the opponent and hang ones bodyweight on him? I forgot what the technical term was for it.
     
  14. j123

    j123 Pro Sherdogger 500-0-1

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    Is GJJ more street-proof than sport BJJ? GnP doesn't work, T-Bone said so
     
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  15. sausageshop

    sausageshop White Belt

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    I believe the technical term is the randy koala bear, at least that's what we call it in my gym every 6 months when we get around to drilling it. :rolleyes:
     
  16. mooner100

    mooner100 Guest


    If anything, he would be a bjj guy because he's really big on passing the guard, control and maintain then works for a sub.
     
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  17. Russky

    Russky Green Belt

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    Their philosophy is that "all fights end up on the ground". That gives an excuse not to practice judo throws which hurts as hell when you are a beginner.

    BJJ is a great addition to judo and fun to practice on its own. If you want to learn real fighting skills welcome to Red Army.
     
  18. Steve-French

    Steve-French What A Rush!!!

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    Wasn't Luta Livre basically catch wrestling? And wouldn't the Gracies usually prove superior to the Luta Livre guys back in the day? Although I would have taken somebody like Stu Heart over Helio Gracie when they were younger.
     
  19. BJJ_Rage

    BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

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    Arona nearly killied saku...
     
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  20. BJJ_Rage

    BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

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    Ll comes from catch and judo, but it is not the same.

    Ll vs Bjj didn't always end up with the Bjj practitioner on top, why would it? Bjj is not magic...
     

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