International [ISIS Repatriation] Yazidis plead with Canada not to repatriate ISIS members

[cincymma79]

Simple solution

 

[Arkain2K]

Should Europe Bring Back the Fighters Who Left for ISIS?
by Alain Destexhe | November 6, 2019​

After the Turkish offensive into Syria, European governments are confronted again with the thorny problem of what to do with the "foreign fighters".

Foreign fighters are Muslim extremists who left their countries of residence to join ISIS and fight against Western civilization and values. Most of them are men, but many women joined them to support the Caliphate. Many of these women later became pregnant with the children of ISIS terrorists.

Since the fall of Mosul and Raqqa, most of the surviving fighters are currently being detained in Iraqi or Kurdish jails. Some are also in detention in northern Syria, a territory whose future is uncertain. Most women (and their children) live in refugee camps, often in miserable conditions.

Up to now, Europeans governments have remained reluctant to bring their nationals back, and have merely organized the repatriation of women and children on a case-by-case basis. There is currently, however, growing pressure to bring all of them, jailed or not, back to Europe.

In Belgium, a group of 300 academics launched a petition in late October, asking for the "urgent return of the Belgians from Syria". In an op-ed published in a major Belgian daily, De Standaard, two senior fellows of Belgium's Royal Institute for International Relations advocated that the repatriation of Belgian fighters is "the right choice". The European Council of Foreign Affairs supported a similar idea in its report "Beyond Good and Evil: Why Europe should bring foreign fighters home?" Even Frederic van Leeuw, the Belgian Federal Prosecutor (in charge of fighting terrorism) pleaded for organizing the repatriation of jailed terrorists and holding their trials in Belgium.

Their arguments may vary but are, in substance, that as Iraqi (or Syrian) courts and prisons do not meet international standards, the return of ISIS supporters to Europe would be the best way to ensure they remain under control and that they can go through programs of de-radicalization and become moderate Muslims. Women are often portrayed as innocent victims and children at risk of radicalization if they remain in the region's camps.

A common pattern of these calls for repatriation is that they never mention the immense suffering imposed on Europe, the Middle East, and the world by the Islamic State.

All those appeals fail to address the main issue. By joining ISIS, these men and women made a choice. They decided to leave behind their European citizenship and join a "state," the fundamental values of which are totally incompatible with those of Western societies. These men and women decided to join a terrorist group whose objective was mercilessly to murder people of their home countries, as they did in Nice, Berlin, Brussels, Paris and many others places; a group that burned alive in a cage a captured Jordanian fighter pilot and raped hundreds of Yazidi women, to mention just some of their atrocities. At the time they joined ISIS, they knew what they were doing and could not ignore the nature and the acts of this terrorist group. They should be stripped of their Western nationalities because they themselves renounced them by joining a terror organization.

Almost all the persons concerned are first -- and more often, second or third -- generation immigrants to the West. In most instances, they also retain the nationality of the country their families hailed from: Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia or Pakistan. So, by losing their Western nationalities, they would not become stateless.

From a legal point of view, it is a principle of international law that crimes committed in a country should be tried in the country where these crimes were committed. There is no reason to show mercy to people who tried to kill their fellow citizens and destroy their societies. Women and their children born in Iraq or Syria should also not be allowed to return to Europe. Their other countries of citizenship are free to take them back, but there is neither any duty nor responsibility for European governments to do so.

Advocates for repatriation usually raise the "moral argument". Children born in the Caliphate, they say, are not responsible for the crimes of their parents and should be taken care of. That is certainly true. But why would they deserve better treatment than other children born in Iraq or Syria? What about the children of Yazidi women raped by ISIS fighters? What about the Syrian, Kurdish and Iraqi orphans whose parents were murdered by ISIS? Don't these mothers and children deserve our help and support more than the women who were already living in Europe and, now, pretend to have "made a mistake" by joining ISIS? A bloody mistake, indeed: they are, at the very minimum, accomplices in the crimes and atrocities committed by ISIS. As the British commentator Piers Morgan wrote:

"These are the women who leave their homes, families, friends and countries to go and marry the world's worst terrorists. They have sex with them, they breed with them, they cook for them, they clean for them, they love them and they worship them. And while they're doing all this, their husbands are busy raping, torturing, stoning, beheading and murdering people."

This debate about repatriation is another example of how confused the West has become when trying to apply its moral principles. The real victims here are the people who were murdered, wounded, raped, tortured or displaced by ISIS. Their children, if still alive, will have to live with the consequences of ISIS terror. In Iraq alone, after the fall of the Caliphate, more than 200 ISIS mass graves were discovered. ISIS victims worldwide probably number in the millions.

If European governments have to choose between supporting a Yazidi rape survivor and her unwanted child or a woman who willingly left Europe to spit in the face of Western societies and the values of her country of origin to join ISIS, they should choose the former. Sorry, do-gooders. These deserters should not be allowed back to Europe.

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/15118/europe-return-isis-fighters

 

[Mendacious]

Not a fan of Turkey but I really like how they’re bullying the do-nothing virtue signalers that are the Europeans.

Nobody cares more about human rights than they do, so I hope that they accept their own citizens and give them a lenient citizen in a comfy jail cell, and to “rehabilitate” them. (Pay them off with welfare so that they don’t kill people)

God forbid these people get death sentences or life in isolation.

 

[Arkain2K]

Well, I hate to say it, but of course Turkey is right here. Unless these terrorists have dual citizenship, you cannot simply take their citizenship and act like it's not your problem. Imagine Mexico doing that to all Mexican criminals convicted in the US: "Sorry, you cannot deport, not our citizen."

The problem is our justice systems are not equipped to deal with these people. There is a reason Guantanamo came into existence (even though I think it should not exist). There is a reason the world was content to let IS prisoners rot in Kurdish camps.

Europe already had three long years to beef up their national security laws to make it easier to incarcerate returning jihadists. Or in a far more likely scenario, outsource the job to Iraq in exchange for millions of dollars.

Whatever proposals that was on their drawing board, they better get it ready when the cages are opened comes Monday.

Turkey will begin sending ISIS fighters back to Europe 'from Monday', says minister
By Euronews & Reuters • last updated: 09/11/2019

​

Turkey has vowed to make good on its promise to send foreign Islamic State fighters back to their home countries as soon as Monday, warning European nations that it does not matter whether the former militants are welcome at home or not.

Interior Minister Suleyman Soylu said on Friday that militants captured during its military incursion in northern Syria - where many former IS fighters were being held in prisons after being captured by Kurdish forces - would be repatriated.

Turkey has long criticised its European allies for refusing to take back Islamic State fighters who are their citizens, and claimed that it will send them back even if their citizenship has been revoked.

"We are telling them: 'We'll repatriate these people to you', and we are starting as of Monday," Soylu said.

European reactions

A source at the French Foreign Ministry told Euronews that foreign jihadists were a security issue both for France and Turkey — and that it was therefore in the two countries' best interest to handle their cases in an orderly manner.

The issue of foreign jihadists will be on the agenda of a meeting of the international coalition against ISIS on November 14, in Washington D.C, the source added. The meeting will gather about 30 countries, including France and Turkey.

The Foreign Ministry official said that there was already 'close and efficient cooperation' in place with Turkey to handle the case of French jihadists and their children.

In light of the above, Turkey's announcement won't change anything, the source added.

Reached by Euronews on Saturday, a Belgian Foreign Ministry spokesperson said "less than five" Belgian fighters — men and women — were currently detained by Turkish authorities.

"A strong, tested bilateral procedure fully involving Belgian authorities and Turkey exists for the repatriation of fighters arrested on Turkish soil to Belgium. We assume that this procedure will be used," the spokesperson told Euronews.

"The timing is in the hands of Turkish authorities," the spokesperson added.

The acknowledgement that European jihadists will likely be repatriated from Turkey to their home countries contrasts with comments made just last week to Euronews when the policy was first announced.

At the time, representatives of both the British and Belgian governments repeated that the militants should preferably remain in Syria and Iraq to face trial.

On November 3, Soylu warned that Turkey was "not a hotel" for captured militants and accused European powers that expecting the authorities in Turkey to deal with the former militants alone was irresponsible.

France, the UK and Belgium are among those who have argued that IS fighters should face justice in Syria and Iraq, where their crimes were committed, while Britain has stripped dozens of former militants of their citizenship.

In a written statement sent last week, a spokesperson for the British Foreign Office said: “Our priority is the safety and security of the UK and the people who live here.

“Those who have fought for or supported Daesh should wherever possible face justice for their crimes in the most appropriate jurisdiction, which will often be in the region where their offences have been committed.”

The Belgian Foreign Ministry at the time said the country's position was to seek trial for IS fighters "near the place where they committed their crimes."

"This must imperatively be done in fair conditions and in compliance with international law. Discussions are continuing and Belgium remains convinced that this is the solution that minimizes the risks for our society while respecting the rights of the defendant," a ministry spokesman said.

Although Britain, for example, has stripped fighters with dual nationality of their citizenship, it is against international law to make an individual stateless, so those with sole nationality should theoretically remain British citizens and - ultimately - the responsibility of the British government.

While returning European fighters will face justice in their home countries, there are worries that much of the evidence against them may not stand up in court, a number of experts have suggested.

https://www.euronews.com/2019/11/08...rning-isis-fighters-from-monday-says-minister

 

[ObamaPhoneLady]

No doubt Justin 'Blackface' Trudeau will invite them all to come live in Canada with free housing and welfare while Canadians struggle to make ends meet.

 

[Arkain2K]

Kurdistan Regional Government: Canada and the West must bring back their ISIS detainees
By Amanda Connolly • November 3, 2019

The Kurdistan Regional Government’s envoy in North America says Canada and the West must bring back their ISIS detainees to face trial.

And she says if the law is not able to support their prosecutions, maybe the laws need to be changed.

“I do believe it’s the responsibility of every country, every government to bring back its own nationals and put them on trial, and that would be my message to Prime Minister Trudeau,” said Bayan Sami Abdul Rahman in an interview with the West Block’s Mercedes Stephenson.

“I understand that some countries are concerned that perhaps they don’t have enough evidence to convict somebody, that perhaps the laws of certain European and Western countries are such that after 10 years or so those people would be released.

“Well, perhaps it’s time that you looked at your laws.”

Tens of thousands of people were captured after the final battles of ISIS and are being held in Kurdish camps in northeastern Syria, part of the autonomous region of Kurdistan which encompasses parts of the north of both Syria and Iraq.

The Kurds were key allies to the West in fighting ISIS, losing about 11,000 of its forces to ISIS, which drew thousands of foreign fighters from around the world.

Among those detained in the camps are roughly 40 Canadians.

None have been charged by the RCMP.

Kurdish authorities have criticized Canada along with other Western countries for not repatriating their citizens to face justice at home for their crimes.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has said Canadian ISIS fighters knew they were leaving the security of Canadian law when they left to fight for the terrorist group, and that he will not put consular staff in danger by trying to provide on-the-ground assistance to those in the camps.

But Abdul Rahman and other Kurdish officials have warned they don’t have the capacity to handle the detainees indefinitely.

Abdul Rahman says countries should be bringing their fighters back now, and that leaving them in the camps risks creating a new generation of extremists.

“Don’t just leave it to the Iraqs or Syrians or Kurds to manage these camps. This is the responsibility of the international community, and I would include Canada and I would include the UK and France and Germany and the United States in that,” she said.

“It’s our collective responsibility to deal with these camps and to ensure we don’t have future fighters who are now growing up there.”

https://globalnews.ca/news/6114725/bayan-abdul-rahman-canada-isis-fighters/amp/

 

[MicroBrew]

The Euros should not cow to Turkey. Turkey turned a blind eye to European ISIS fighters entering Turkey to cross over into Iraq and Syria, because Erdogan wanted Assad gone. Now Erdogan is trying to act like Turkey was doing the Europeans a favor by not letting ISIS fighters go back. Ofcourse the Europeans also were glad to see their homegrown ISIS members leave.

Why can't the Euros just ban all airlines from allowing ISIS members on planes bound for Europe?

 

[Mendacious]

“I understand that some countries are concerned that perhaps they don’t have enough evidence to convict somebody, that perhaps the laws of certain European and Western countries are such that after 10 years or so those people would be released.

“Well, perhaps it’s time that you looked at your laws

Well said, well said.

 

[Mendacious]

The Euros should not cow to Turkey. Turkey turned a blind eye to European ISIS fighters entering Turkey to cross over into Iraq and Syria, because Erdogan wanted Assad gone. Now Erdogan is trying to act like Turkey was doing the Europeans a favor by not letting ISIS fighters go back. Ofcourse the Europeans also were glad to see their homegrown ISIS members leave.

Why can't the Euros just ban all airlines from allowing ISIS members on planes bound for Europe?

because of international law and because of their laws which do not accept death sentences. It’s the right thing to do from a legal perspective and from a European moral perspective

Why do they suddenly not care about the human rights of their citizens?

 

[SRN]

Europe already had three long years to beef up their national security laws to make it easier to incarcerate returning jihadists. Or in a far more likely scenario, outsource the job to Iraq in exchange for millions of dollars.

Whatever proposals that was on their drawing board, they better get it ready when the cages are opened comes Monday.

Turkey will begin sending ISIS fighters back to Europe 'from Monday', says minister
By Euronews & Reuters • last updated: 09/11/2019

​

Turkey has vowed to make good on its promise to send foreign Islamic State fighters back to their home countries as soon as Monday, warning European nations that it does not matter whether the former militants are welcome at home or not.

Interior Minister Suleyman Soylu said on Friday that militants captured during its military incursion in northern Syria - where many former IS fighters were being held in prisons after being captured by Kurdish forces - would be repatriated.

Turkey has long criticised its European allies for refusing to take back Islamic State fighters who are their citizens, and claimed that it will send them back even if their citizenship has been revoked.

"We are telling them: 'We'll repatriate these people to you', and we are starting as of Monday," Soylu said.

European reactions

A source at the French Foreign Ministry told Euronews that foreign jihadists were a security issue both for France and Turkey — and that it was therefore in the two countries' best interest to handle their cases in an orderly manner.

The issue of foreign jihadists will be on the agenda of a meeting of the international coalition against ISIS on November 14, in Washington D.C, the source added. The meeting will gather about 30 countries, including France and Turkey.

The Foreign Ministry official said that there was already 'close and efficient cooperation' in place with Turkey to handle the case of French jihadists and their children.

In light of the above, Turkey's announcement won't change anything, the source added.

Reached by Euronews on Saturday, a Belgian Foreign Ministry spokesperson said "less than five" Belgian fighters — men and women — were currently detained by Turkish authorities.

"A strong, tested bilateral procedure fully involving Belgian authorities and Turkey exists for the repatriation of fighters arrested on Turkish soil to Belgium. We assume that this procedure will be used," the spokesperson told Euronews.

"The timing is in the hands of Turkish authorities," the spokesperson added.

The acknowledgement that European jihadists will likely be repatriated from Turkey to their home countries contrasts with comments made just last week to Euronews when the policy was first announced.

At the time, representatives of both the British and Belgian governments repeated that the militants should preferably remain in Syria and Iraq to face trial.

On November 3, Soylu warned that Turkey was "not a hotel" for captured militants and accused European powers that expecting the authorities in Turkey to deal with the former militants alone was irresponsible.

France, the UK and Belgium are among those who have argued that IS fighters should face justice in Syria and Iraq, where their crimes were committed, while Britain has stripped dozens of former militants of their citizenship.

In a written statement sent last week, a spokesperson for the British Foreign Office said: “Our priority is the safety and security of the UK and the people who live here.

“Those who have fought for or supported Daesh should wherever possible face justice for their crimes in the most appropriate jurisdiction, which will often be in the region where their offences have been committed.”

The Belgian Foreign Ministry at the time said the country's position was to seek trial for IS fighters "near the place where they committed their crimes."

"This must imperatively be done in fair conditions and in compliance with international law. Discussions are continuing and Belgium remains convinced that this is the solution that minimizes the risks for our society while respecting the rights of the defendant," a ministry spokesman said.

Although Britain, for example, has stripped fighters with dual nationality of their citizenship, it is against international law to make an individual stateless, so those with sole nationality should theoretically remain British citizens and - ultimately - the responsibility of the British government.

While returning European fighters will face justice in their home countries, there are worries that much of the evidence against them may not stand up in court, a number of experts have suggested.

https://www.euronews.com/2019/11/08...rning-isis-fighters-from-monday-says-minister

It's a good thing I don't have that kind of power because I would propose a lot more drastic and effective way to get rid of those Isis fighters.

 

[The ScorpioN]

because of international law and because of their laws which do not accept death sentences. It’s the right thing to do from a legal perspective and from a European moral perspective

Why do they suddenly not care about the human rights of their citizens?

Citizens? They threw away their passports and renounced their citizenship when they joined the caliphate. They're foreign combatants.

 

[Mendacious]

Citizens? They threw away their passports and renounced their citizenship when they joined the caliphate. They're foreign combatants.

You can't strip people of citizenship if they cannot get citizenship elsewhere. Unless, maybe, if they actually renounced their own citizenship, Europe has to take them back.

Europe had the option to go against their values and pay off the Iraqi's to slaughter these guys or to uphold their values and take them back. They can't have it both ways.

 

[ObamaPhoneLady]

Kurdistan Regional Government: Canada and the West must bring back their ISIS detainees
By Amanda Connolly • November 3, 2019​

The Kurdistan Regional Government’s envoy in North America says Canada and the West must bring back their ISIS detainees to face trial.

And she says if the law is not able to support their prosecutions, maybe the laws need to be changed.

“I do believe it’s the responsibility of every country, every government to bring back its own nationals and put them on trial, and that would be my message to Prime Minister Trudeau,” said Bayan Sami Abdul Rahman in an interview with the West Block’s Mercedes Stephenson.

“I understand that some countries are concerned that perhaps they don’t have enough evidence to convict somebody, that perhaps the laws of certain European and Western countries are such that after 10 years or so those people would be released.

“Well, perhaps it’s time that you looked at your laws.”

Tens of thousands of people were captured after the final battles of ISIS and are being held in Kurdish camps in northeastern Syria, part of the autonomous region of Kurdistan which encompasses parts of the north of both Syria and Iraq.

The Kurds were key allies to the West in fighting ISIS, losing about 11,000 of its forces to ISIS, which drew thousands of foreign fighters from around the world.

Among those detained in the camps are roughly 40 Canadians.

None have been charged by the RCMP.

Kurdish authorities have criticized Canada along with other Western countries for not repatriating their citizens to face justice at home for their crimes.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has said Canadian ISIS fighters knew they were leaving the security of Canadian law when they left to fight for the terrorist group, and that he will not put consular staff in danger by trying to provide on-the-ground assistance to those in the camps.

But Abdul Rahman and other Kurdish officials have warned they don’t have the capacity to handle the detainees indefinitely.

Abdul Rahman says countries should be bringing their fighters back now, and that leaving them in the camps risks creating a new generation of extremists.

“Don’t just leave it to the Iraqs or Syrians or Kurds to manage these camps. This is the responsibility of the international community, and I would include Canada and I would include the UK and France and Germany and the United States in that,” she said.

“It’s our collective responsibility to deal with these camps and to ensure we don’t have future fighters who are now growing up there.”

https://globalnews.ca/news/6114725/bayan-abdul-rahman-canada-isis-fighters/amp/

Simple solution: hang them all.

 

[The ScorpioN]

You can't strip people of citizenship if they cannot get citizenship elsewhere. Unless, maybe, if they actually renounced their own citizenship, Europe has to take them back.

Europe had the option to go against their values and pay off the Iraqi's to slaughter these guys or to uphold their values and take them back. They can't have it both ways.

One of the conditions of joining ISIS was renouncing citizenship. Doubt the caliphate even believes in the concept of citizenship.
And I agree on paying off Iraq to punish them under the law they profess to believe in. But since that's not an option, treat them as enemy combatants. They don't get the rights of citizens. I'm sure there are some old laws that can be "interpreted" to see to it they never see the light of day.

 

[Mendacious]

One of the conditions of joining ISIS was renouncing citizenship. Doubt the caliphate even believes in the concept of citizenship.
And I agree on paying off Iraq to punish them under the law they profess to believe in. But since that's not an option, treat them as enemy combatants. They don't get the rights of citizens. I'm sure there are some old laws that can be "interpreted" to see to it they never see the light of day.

The Caliphate had citizenship, they even had birth records, but they weren't a real country, so that doesn't apply to any international laws, as far as I am aware.

If you told me your house was an independent country and that if I want to join your country, I have to renounce my American citizenship, there's nothing legally removing my statehood unless I actually applied for getting rid of my citizenship.

It wasn't a real country, you can't just cook up half baked scenarios like that to rid people of their citizenship.

 

[The ScorpioN]

The Caliphate had citizenship, they even had birth records, but they weren't a real country, so that doesn't apply to any international laws, as far as I am aware.

If you told me your house was an independent country and that if I want to join your country, I have to renounce my American citizenship, there's nothing legally removing my statehood unless I actually applied for getting rid of my citizenship.

It wasn't a real country, you can't just cook up half baked scenarios like that to rid people of their citizenship.

If you are able to seize land and establish your governance, how is that not a country (or caliphate, or whatever you want to call it)? Whether international law recognizes it or not has no bearing on the actual soldiers going there, recognizing it and renouncing their original citizenship.
It's not prudent to let violent traitors back into your society. They played for keeps and lost.

 

[Mendacious]

If you are able to seize land and establish your governance, how is that not a country (or caliphate, or whatever you want to call it)? Whether international law recognizes it or not has no bearing on the actual soldiers going there, recognizing it and renouncing their original citizenship.
It's not prudent to let violent traitors back into your society. They played for keeps and lost.

It's not a country because no one recognizes it as such and they're missing out on many things that real countries have like diplomats. Plus it doesn't exist anymore, it lasted like 2 years as something that resembles a country while in the middle of a war. No stability, this is not 1996 Afghanistan which was a bonafide country under terrorists who were almost uncontested

Keep in mind, I'm merely playing devils advocate because Europe has to play by the rules. They should be getting life in prison but Europe wants to have a soft and light justice system but also doesn't want terrorists taking advantage of it or the political blowback. They're going to have to take a stand

You can be a virtue signaler that speaks of human rights or you can give Iraq some money to kill them. For too long Europe has been sheltered from the real world and have to make decisions that contradict their core values - and take the criticism like the US has had to

 

[The ScorpioN]

It's not a country because no one recognizes it as such and they're missing out on many things that real countries have like diplomats.

Keep in mind, I'm merely playing devils advocate because Europe has to play by the rules. They should be getting life in prison but Europe wants to have a soft and light justice system but also doesn't want terrorists taking advantage of it or the political blowback. They're going to have to take a stand

You can be a virtue signaler that speaks of human rights or you can give Iraq some money to kill them. For too long Europe has been sheltered from the real world and have to make decisions that contradict their core values - and take the criticism like the US has had to

Absolutely. I misunderstood your original post.
Yes they seem to want their cake and eat it too.

 

[Arkain2K]

All of them should be lined up against a wall and shot.

bullet in the head

Charge them with war-crimes. Throw them in prison for life.

I prefer public hangings.

Simple solution: hang them all.

I think you guys are a bit confused here.

The question here isn't which method of execution do you think they deserves, it's which government is actually willing to do anything about their own ISIS-affiliated nationals.

 

[Arkain2K]