ISIS is CIA creation that got way out of hand?

[stellarborg]

interesting article, any truth to this you think?

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/02/rfk-jr-why-arabs-dont-trust-america-213601

 

[Rex Kwon Do]

Well, it's certainly Obama's fault. At the very least his weak policy in Iraq created the conditions that allowed them to coalesce.

inbe4 Dubya

 

[stellarborg]

Well, it's certainly Obama's fault. At the very least his weak policy in Iraq created the conditions that allowed them to coalesce.

inbe4 Dubya

I don't think you've read the article...

 

[Rex Kwon Do]

I don't think you've read the article...

I have many leatherbound books that I've read.

 

[Rod1]

Well, it's certainly Obama's fault. At the very least his weak policy in Iraq created the conditions that allowed them to coalesce.

inbe4 Dubya

Most of ISIS operatives were former Saddam guys who were barred from work in the new government, thrown to prison with a bunch of jihadis and then released into the population.

All of that before Obama took office.

 

[M3t4tr0n]

 

[Rex Kwon Do]

Most of ISIS operatives were former Saddam guys who were barred from work in the new government, thrown to prison with a bunch of jihadis and then released into the population.

All of that before Obama took office.

And leaving the region creating a power vacuum allowed them to coalesce. Thanks Obama. For real.

Surprisingly, Kool-Aid is great at taking out those stains.

 

[stellarborg]

I really don't think any of the people replying to my post actually read the article

lol

 

[Zankou]

There is a fair bit of truth to the article, as well as a fair bit of distortion.

The CIA interference in Middle Eastern politics was intense in the 1950s, no doubt. Similarly, our longstanding support for Sunni jihadi against the communists is hardly debatable.

The 'oil pipeline' argument is completely retarded, however, as is the inability to explain why Turkey and the Gulf States are so berserk for taking out Assad. You don't need an oil pipeline conspiracy to know why we have for decades been aligned with Israel, Turkey, and the Gulf Arabs. It's not a magical mystery (and nowhere does his article mention Israel).

Likewise, the article cherry picks its sources and gives them an unrelentingly exaggerated spin. It's true, for example, that the US knew the fall of Assad might empower nutjob jihadi Sunni groups. Counterpoint: Who the fuck was unclear about that? Who is unclear about it even now (besides Whoyougonnacall, I suppose)? The same memo that is cited in the article condemns this as a risk, it doesn't imply that the US wanted it to happen. But for the author, that means the US created it.

As per usual, the Arabs are deprived of any moral autonomy or responsibility (that's for white people), and in an inversion of the white man's burden, the entire world is created entirely by American policy. It's always us. Other people don't really even exist, except in relation to us.

Similarly, the article goes on and on about Arabs blaming the CIA, and nowhere mentions that Arabs more particularly blame the Jews. This is common for leftist exaltations of foreign anti-imperialist movements -- they will joyously scoop up the anti-American rhetoric, but delete the anti-Jewish rhetoric, because it makes them sound like Nazis.

Finally if the author name-dropped "Kennedy" any more, he could have just cut-and-pasted the name 30 times to start the article, and then just moved on.

 

[Byron Carter]

Saddam Hussein was a CIA creation too. Let's not forget that.

 

[Fawlty]

The article isn't really about ISIS. I'm not at all convinced that the US intervention is responsible for the radical ideology that spawned them. The power vacuum gave them a place to suck, but there was going to be a power vacuum soon enough to accommodate them, with or without our meddling.

 

[Zankou]

US intervention is not responsible in the sense that we intended for it to happen, but causally speaking, it's responsible---we wanted a free and democratic Iraq, instead we permanently broke the country (probably needed to happen at some point, with a true partition, but we still haven't accepted it). Same with the Saudis flooding the region with lunatic Salafism. The Saudis didn't intend for this to spawn an uncontrollable sectarian conflagration, they didn't want that, but that was the predictable result.

 

[Rex Kwon Do]

I really don't think any of the people replying to my post actually read the article

lol

You should post some quotes that at least introduce or give a synopsis of it. A teaser. Don't just drop the link.

 

[PolishHeadlock]

Stopped reading here.

Two years earlier, Roosevelt and Stone had orchestrated a coup in Iran against the democratically elected President Mohammed Mosaddegh, after Mosaddegh tried to renegotiate the terms of Iran’s lopsided contracts with the British oil giant Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (now BP). Mosaddegh was the first elected leader in Iran’s 4,000-year history and a popular champion for democracy across the developing world. Mosaddegh expelled all British diplomats after uncovering a coup attempt by U.K. intelligence officers working in cahoots with BP. Mosaddegh, however, made the fatal mistake of resisting his advisers’ pleas to also expel the CIA, which, they correctly suspected, was complicit in the British plot. Mosaddegh idealized the U.S. as a role model for Iran’s new democracy and incapable of such perfidies. Despite Dulles’ needling, President Harry Truman had forbidden the CIA from actively joining the British caper to topple Mosaddegh. When Eisenhower took office in January 1953, he immediately unleashed Dulles. After ousting Mosaddegh in “Operation Ajax,” Stone and Roosevelt installed Shah Reza Pahlavi, who favored U.S. oil companies but whose two decades of CIA sponsored savagery toward his own people from the Peacock throne would finally ignite the 1979 Islamic revolution that has bedeviled our foreign policy for 35 years.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/st...arabs-dont-trust-america-213601#ixzz41nUZlLf7

 

[M3t4tr0n]

Surprisingly, Kool-Aid is great at taking out those stains.

Is there alcohol in the kool aid?

 

[Seano]

I really don't think any of the people replying to my post actually read the article

lol

Yes, yes. 'murica and oil. Doesn't every conversation about the states end up being about oil as though we're the only country in the world 100% dependent on it?

Truth is, 98% of these savages have no idea why they hate who they hate and basically do the things they are told to do by radicals because they aren't educated enough to make a rational decision of their own. They are a simple minded people who can be brainwashed into doing horrific things in the name of Allah.

As if the people we're referring to are actually familiar with the history in that article. Ridiculous.

 

[Zankou]

Btw, the author's attempts to claim that his relative JFK was some sort of democratic hero who opposed the CIA's machinations are an absolutely *outrageous* lie. Nowhere does he mention that JFK explicitly authorized and ordered the CIA coup in Iraq.

"In April 1962, the State Department issued new guidelines on Iraq that were intended to increase American influence in the country. Around the same time, Kennedy instructed the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)—under the direction of Archie Roosevelt, Jr.—to begin making preparations for a military coup against Qasim"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forei...._Kennedy_administration#Asia_and_Middle_East

Nowhere does he mention that it was JFK who first formed our military alliance with Israel, which enraged the Arabs more than anything (for that might, again, raise the Jewish question). Nowhere does he mention JFK's unrelenting sinister support for the CIA fucking up the region. The idea that JFK was somehow an innocent saint is pure North Korea level propaganda.

 

[Seano]

Its pretty sad how many people are starting to defend groups like ISIS. A group that would behead you and post it on the internet without a moments hesitation and not give a shit about some article that you posted on why they supposedly do what they do.

 

[Rex Kwon Do]

Is there alcohol in the kool aid?

Given your posts, there's gotta be some type of intoxicant in it.

 

[dissolved]

Since when have "the explanations" of "religion and ideology" been "convenient?"

Seriously, has it ever been easy to criticize or blame Islam?!!!

Billions of fearful apologists everywhere for the the blood-lust ideology that is Islam!

 

[PolishHeadlock]

Btw, the author's attempts to claim that his relative JFK was some sort of democratic hero who opposed the CIA's machinations are an absolutely *outrageous* lie. Nowhere does he mention that JFK explicitly authorized and ordered the CIA coup in Iraq.

"In April 1962, the State Department issued new guidelines on Iraq that were intended to increase American influence in the country. Around the same time, Kennedy instructed the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)—under the direction of Archie Roosevelt, Jr.—to begin making preparations for a military coup against Qasim"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forei...._Kennedy_administration#Asia_and_Middle_East

Nowhere does he mention that it was JFK who first formed our military alliance with Israel, which enraged the Arabs more than anything (for that might, again, raise the Jewish question). Nowhere does he mention JFK's unrelenting sinister support for the CIA fucking up the region. The idea that JFK was somehow an innocent saint is pure North Korea level propaganda.

That's what happens when you elect a Catholic