Is wing chun really this good ?

[Aardvark]

There are many guys in many different schools who are decent athletes and good. This guy looked pretty good.

he looked good with a compliant partner.

That being said I don't think he would 'own the UFC' or anything. But I think he wouldn't be a bad guy to have watching your back if you were in a fight.

I don't see what is wrong with acknowledging the guy has fast hands. The sticky hands drill is just that, a drill. I mean rarely do people put their wrists together and say, 'lets fight!' Trust me. Most Kung Fu schools do sparring that is similar to kickboxing (with protective equipment). At that point they throw bombs at each other.

What you see in the video is just a traditional drill that they do to vary training.

he has fast hands. I've met a couple of ping pong players that have hand and reaction speed that would make him look like he's going in slow motion. doesn't have anything to do with being a bad ass.

I actually have a fair amount of respect for the whole San Shou thing. I'm not really involved, but I've always liked the idea of taking kung fu-ers, putting them in a ring and judging styles and techniques within a style based on that, as opposed to what looks cool.

the thing is that most kf sparring ends up looking like bad kick boxing. WC people don't even do sparing most of the time. I dont claim to have met every WC teacher out there, but two seperate schools I looked at did nothing but chi sao and the supper secret wooden dummy form at higher levels.

say what you will, but the overwhelming majority of KF being taught is little more than folk dancing.

 

[Aardvark]

there is a video of bruce lee sparring someone with full gear on.

he used the basic knock down and backfist that you see that guy use. It was VERY effective.
Sure it isn't going to KO your opponent. But niether is a jab unless you are george foreman.

in the video, the other guy ended up getting so frustrated he did something stupid and got his ass kicked. all while mr.lee kept his composure with his tactics and never really put himself in danger.

mr lee was a cha cha champion and an actor.

 

[Aardvark]

also a lot of wing chun strikes are eye gouges or throat strikes, you don't need that much power for that.

*yawn*

so.... no real power generation, no 'long range' attacks, no real grappling game or answers to clinch short of "breaking their knee", lots of training for trapping range, which you'd be hard pressed to hold against anyone actually trying to hurt you.

but hey.... lots of demo material, eye gouges and throat strikes. where do I sign up?

 

[sha]

so.... no real power generation, no 'long range' attacks, no real grappling game or answers to clinch short of "breaking their knee", lots of training for trapping range, which you'd be hard pressed to hold against anyone actually trying to hurt you.

that's not what I've said. They have their own methods of power generation, which I'm not very familiar with, except that one way of using the snap of their wrist and elbow to do the "one inch punch".

My point is that maybe power is not their main goal, not that it's non existent.

For grappling, a lot of arts don't have grappling (for example boxing), that doesn't make them useless.

Personally I've never trained specifically for trapping, but I think it can be effective for self defense. It might not be as useful for MMA because the attacks are not fully commited and are often set up by a jab (which you cannot "trap").

 

[antant]

Good post Aaron_mag. I agree, you aren't going to a tae kwon do school to learn to grapple, and if you want to learn to kick, don't go to a BJJ school.

Back to the original posters question: No, wing chun is NOT that good, as so many people have pointed out already.

Aardvark: Don't knock eye gouges and throat strikes. Just because you can't use the techniques effectivley in grapple/close range, doesn't mean they don't apply to mid/long range attacks. Ask Chuck if you want to know how effective eye gouges are. And he does them on*accident * too. :wink:

You aren't going to "knee crush" someone from the clinch either. I've already stated that wing chun fares very poorly in clinch range. If you are going to kick somone in the knee, it's going to be mid/long range, and its definitly going to be when they have some weight on that leg. It's not a kick either, it's a stomp, and its at a 45ish degree angle to the inside or outside of the knee.

In terms of Power: WC students are taught their punches and punching techniques are enought to KO someone. We all know thats not true, but hey, most of them don't spar full on so they wouldn't know any better.

Again, wing chun is NOT that good, especially as shown in the video.

 

[chlorox]

I used to do WC myself before MT/BJJ

If you are into martial arts for the unarmed combat aspect of it, my personal opinion is that it's techniques are inferior to the more evolved techniques of MT and western boxing and my biggest grouse against the style is the emphasis on Chi Sao....Chi Sao is an interesting display of skill and can be enjoyed for its artistic value, but it has minimal practical application outside of the WC class.

Don't get me wrong, WC could work in a real-life confrontation against average blokes, but there are far far better styles/systems like boxing/MT,etc

The brainwash-quotient seems to run pretty high among WC guys for some reason...probably attributable to lack of open sparring, competitions that may disprove concepts and a religious adherence to concepts without regard to proof or applicability.

Obviously, this is based on my limited experience which may not account for some fabulous WC school that has worked it all out.

 

[Aardvark]

Aardvark: Don't knock eye gouges and throat strikes. Just because you can't use the techniques effectivley in grapple/close range, doesn't mean they don't apply to mid/long range attacks. Ask Chuck if you want to know how effective eye gouges are. And he does them on*accident * too. :wink:

I'm not knocking eye gouges or throat strikes. I'd say I'm rather able to use them in close and grappling range. There's obviously an understanding that when in a clinch or grappling you don't stick a thumb in someones eye and a finger or two in the other to use as a grip while training or competing under a particular set of rules. Doesn't mean that a "sport" figher is completely blind to the possibility. (no pun intended)

What I'm really saying is that the ability to move, defend and throw your own accurate strikes against someone trying to take your head off is more likely to allow you to stick a finger in someones eye than doing kata, poking a wooden dummy and "indicating" eye and throat strikes in one-steps or cooperative drills.

To sum up, I could give a rats ass about which techniques an art claims to "have". The real question is which ones they functionalize. If a WC school gave their students the skills to enter trapping range, hold it against both strikers and grapplers of moderate ability and land hits against someone who was actively trying to resist while defending themselves from hits, I think that would be awesome. I don't believe that the current blend of MMA is the be all end all of fighting styles and I definately believe a lot of "traditional" martial arts have a lot of good stuff to offer. I'm actually rather looking forward to seeing what impact Crafty Dog's Kali Tudo has on both FMA/Silat and MMA. It's just that most of them, and WC in particular, are in the dark ages as far as training methodology.

 

[judogido]

Off topic, but the MT club I go to use t-shirts, (white, yellow, & black) to "grade" players. It's a good system & there's even more motivatio to learn IMHO to get the "cool coloured t-shirt"so you dont look like a complete n00b.

 

[zofilianenko]

my wing tsun coach is also a BJJ brown belt and 5-1 in MMA, so he teaches us useful stuff in wing tsun. in fact, I don't know how regular wing tsun is, because my wing tsun classes are like MMA classes.

 

[Bruno_Barbarian]

my wing tsun coach is also a BJJ brown belt and 5-1 in MMA, so he teaches us useful stuff in wing tsun. in fact, I don't know how regular wing tsun is, because my wing tsun classes are like MMA classes.

So you bumped a 06 thread to talk about something you dont know...

 

[futang17]

 

[ultimateriley-o]

What are you referring to? If you say Black Belt in Muay Thai I'm going to laugh my ass off.

Fabricio Werdum Gets Muay-Thai Blackbelt from coach Rafael Cordeiro - Believe. Episode 1 - Bloody Elbow

 

[CTEGod]

So you bumped a 06 thread to talk about something you dont know...

lol, I was just about to say...

 

[mjw1]

my wing tsun coach is also a BJJ brown belt and 5-1 in MMA, so he teaches us useful stuff in wing tsun. in fact, I don't know how regular wing tsun is, because my wing tsun classes are like MMA classes.

There are very few purists now a days not that I think it's a bad thing......

 

[jonander50]

I would say its effective if used accordinly

 

[rmongler]

11 years later...

King Kabuki, eh?

 

[SaiWa]

mr lee was a cha cha champion and an actor.

if someone is willing to fight/get in the ring with you and he/she was known as a (dancing type) champion I'd be worried about facing that person because he/she knows how to move really well and understands how to control and balance their body (static and in motion).

 

[bobthebuilder]

Strong thread revival skill demonstrated here. How does WC hand trapping deal with someone who covers up and throws uppercuts?

 

[bigbangspiritbomb]

It can be...but not for those guys. As far as competition fighting, not really. But it does have some advantages on the street. So I'd say it's worth it depending on why you're training.

+ 1

There is nothing about that is competition fighting based. Good for street fighting. Many techniques are illegal in mma and practically useless with gloves.

 

[kenpeters8]

Wing Chun is pure useless crap. Don't waste your time of that crap.