Is waterson Joanna biggest threat?

She's probably the biggest threat, but she's also not really much of a threat imo.
 
No, as much as I'm a fan of waterson, she won't win. Joanna will beat her pretty bad.
 
Jesus JJ will kill Waterson.

JJ has the speed, power, and just plain killer instinct over Waterson.
 
She's pretty crafty/slick with her sub game, so she could pull something out of the bag. The problem is that although she has good striking and movement, she lacks the reach, power and striking defence. Even in her kickboxing days she was pretty hitable .

I think Joanna would stop her unless she pulled on some crazy sub.
 
Homeless Infant said:
Jessica-Andrade_336293_left30.png


Strong power punching grappler with better cardio than Claudia = bad news for JoJed.
Click to expand...
Just a Brazilian hype train if you ask me, panic wrestles against good strikers.
 
aerius said:
A skill advantage can overcome size disadvantage as we saw in Holm vs. Shevchenko, but a size & skill disadvantage which is what Waterson would be facing in Joanna is nearly impossible to overcome unless she has a power advantage (she doesn't) or a range where she's way better (she doesn't, JJ is better everywhere standing).
Click to expand...

I do not agree that Michelle has an overall skill disadvantage .. This is MMA not Muay Thai. And even more than that, to say that any advantage is IMPOSSIBLE to overcome is absurd imo... most especially in the case of someone with Waterson's skill level and athleticism.

Styles make fights, and the reality is that Joanna has never fought anyone with Michelle's style, nor has she ever faced anyone in MMA as complete as Michelle (her finish rate speaks for itself). Joanna and Claudia have both faced some marginal MMA fighters in their time, and didn't finish them.

Gadelha would be a harder style for Michelle than Joanna, because again, styles makes fights ...



Waterson hasn't gone up against the same level of competition as Joanna, give JJ a bunch of Paige & Penne level opponents and she'd finish every one of them. Joanna can be beaten but Waterson isn't the one. Michelle is highly skilled but what she doesn't have is the craft and setups of Joanna, what she does isn't put together into a cohesive whole the way Joanna's game is. As for KH getting JJ down and keeping her down long enough to do something, good luck with that, especially if JJ can round out her game at ATT.
Click to expand...

The only opponent Joanna has beat that trumps anyone Michelle has beat, is Claudia ... and maybe Esparza, two fighters that we have not seen Michelle against.

The reality is that Joanna's best win and most formidable opponent was Claudia at SW, so let's not act like Joanna has faced a lot of top competition in MMA because she hasn't .. a good portion of Joanna's opponents in MMA were the same level of nobodies that Michelle has faced, the majority of which Joanna did not finish ... but Michelle did.

And as I already said in my previous post, Michelle getting Joanna down would be her greatest obstacle, just as it has been for every other grappler that has faced Joanna.
 
As many other UFC fighters, JJ is a reach abuser.

Waterson would need a TD and a finish and be at least heavy enough to not be thrown around by JJ.

That said, i think she wants to fight once in a while and collect paycheck and not really aim for belts or anything. So i think she'll show up here and there. Her main focus is probably giving her family a decent life or something.
 
Having just picked up some useful vcash predicting a first round submission victory for Ms Waterson I'm feeling particularly well disposed towards the Karate Hoochie. That said I don't think she is Joanna's biggest threat, that would be a fully fit Tatiana Suarez imo
 
NinjaNiK said:
I do not agree that Michelle has an overall skill disadvantage .. This is MMA not Muay Thai. And even more than that, to say that any advantage is IMPOSSIBLE to overcome is absurd imo... most especially in the case of someone with Waterson's skill level and athleticism.

Styles make fights, and the reality is that Joanna has never fought anyone with Michelle's style, nor has she ever faced anyone in MMA as complete as Michelle (her finish rate speaks for itself). Joanna and Claudia have both faced some marginal MMA fighters in their time, and didn't finish them.

Gadelha would be a harder style for Michelle than Joanna, because again, styles makes fights ...
Click to expand...

The ground game doesn't matter if Michelle can't get it there, the only fighter who's gotten Joanna down and maintained good control was Claudia, and even she had a hell of a time doing it. Carla was stuffed efforlessly, Penne never came close to getting control, and Lima could only keep her down briefly. Actually forgot about Valerie and the caught kick takedown, but she didn't have much success with control despite being a larger fighter. Waterson doesn't have Claudia's blast double or gorilla strength in the clinch, I won't say it's impossible for her to get JJ down, but it's going to be very difficult and rather unlikely. Another thing to note is that Waterson doesn't actively work for take downs, she almost always waits for her opponent to initiate a clinch before she starts working for a trip or throw, she doesn't shoot doubles or grab the clinch herself. I don't think she'll do well if she's forced to chase a takedown against an opponent who's avoiding the clinch.

Which means it goes back to being a kickboxing match for the most part. Waterson is quite skilled in the standup but the problem is her game isn't as tight and she has bad habits that will put her in a world of hurt against Joanna. What gets Michelle in trouble is backing straight into the fence when under pressure and then getting stuck there and beat on. In her loss against Elena Reid she got backed into the fence a bunch of times and tried to fight back out by throwing kicks from a weak stance which allowed Reid to walk through most of them. Then she got trapped on the fence and wailed on badly, this sequence repeated a few times till she got TKO'd. This is a habit she still has as of her last loss against Herica Tiburcio, she still gets backed straight into the fence where she got clinched, and while she was able to do a head throw reversal against the shorter Tiburcio this is not something she can do against JJ who is taller than her. Joanna would be able to maintain clinch control on the fence and wail on her since the clinch is one of Waterson's weaker areas.

More on the standup. Michelle has a great kicking game but her punches, while good, aren't at the same level, and the bad part is her punching & kicking isn't really linked together. She has punches & she has kicks, but the kicks don't setup the punches that much or vice-versa, it's not a fully integrated striking system the way Joanna's is where everything is linked together to setup something else. She actually reminds me of Anthony Pettis in some ways, great kicks, good at picking shots, but not a fully put together system so it's not as effective as it could be and leaves holes to be exploited by someone with good fundamentals, plus bad cage habits and getting stuck on the fence. Someone with good fundamentals like Holloway can exploit the shit out of Pettis, and I believe Joanna can do the same to Waterson. Also, just noticed that Waterson has a habit of dropping & flailing her hands around when she kicks, that and her long recovery on missed kicks is bad news against anyone with solid counters like JJ, Grasso, or even Claudia.

I go back to Pettis since the more I think about it the more similarities I see between him and Waterson. Both athletic dynamic strikers with great kicks, both have good scrambles & sub games, neither really has an offensive takedown game, both can backed into the fence and wailed on, and both can be beaten by less flashy fighters with solid fundamentals who recognize the weaknesses and how to exploit them. JJ, Claudia, and Grasso would be heavy favourites against Waterson and Karolina with her strong pressure & clinch game would be favoured as well.
 
Homeless Infant said:
Jessica-Andrade_336293_left30.png


Strong power punching grappler with better cardio than Claudia = bad news for JoJed.
Click to expand...
As a JJ fan, I have to agree. Andrade is easily her toughest matchup outside of Gadehla. Waterson would only pose a threat on the ground. And I doubt Waterson could take the fight there.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
1,236,941
Messages
55,456,302
Members
174,787
Latest member
Freddie556

Share this page

Back
Top