Is there such thing as "Going too hard" in jiu jitsu?

[brendan raedy]

I think the question has to do with your goal. If your goal is to compete at a high level than going too hard will be different than if you goal is just to enjoy bjj as a hobby. Also if your goal is to learn a new technique than going too hard means going so hard you can't learn the new technique. I think the answer is that yes you can be going too hard if it is contrary to your reaching your own goal.

I also think that you can also be going too hard if your intensity is contrary to the goals of your partner. For instance if you want to train to win a major competition and your partner is an older person looking to stay in shape, than what constitutes going too hard will be different. But, I also think this is why it serves everyone well to try to find partners, and gyms, that include plenty of people with shared goals for bjj.

I think a lot of instructors could do a better job of making clear to their students that there are different types of rolls with difference pros and cons, benefits and restrictions, i.e. flow rolling versus 100%.

 

[Uchi Mata]

If you're hurting people you're not rolling hard, you're rolling badly. I've had people knee me in the face during flow rolling. If you're using so much physicality that your technique suffers, then you're probably rolling too hard. But that's probably about it.

 

[Title Fight Productions]

Yes there is, especially since it's become popular to fill your class with 30+ year old business men.........

 

[Leify]

No. But putting yourself in bad spots and trying to get out of those positions you may end up losing. To improve your game you need to improve on areas where you are weak. If you are always brining your A game you are always improving on what you are good at.

The point of practice is to improve all aspects of your game.

Even from a bad position, or using techniques that aren't my core set, I'm trying to win every second. That doesn't mean I'll suceed, but my goal isn't to lose, it's to improve position, sweep or submit and turn the tide.

It's a mentality, not a strategy. My goal is to not give you an inch, while taking everything I want. If you practice that way, you're going to compete that way.

 

[Dogstarman]

Even from a bad position, or using techniques that aren't my core set, I'm trying to win every second. That doesn't mean I'll suceed, but my goal isn't to lose, it's to improve position, sweep or submit and turn the tide.

It's a mentality, not a strategy. My goal is to not give you an inch, while taking everything I want. If you practice that way, you're going to compete that way.

That's a good mentality. Of course you are trying to win even in bad spots. I'm talking about the guy at the gym that "has a sick top game". This guy when put on his back will be in trouble all the time by someone who can put him there. Because he always "works" his top game.

Nothing wrong with refining your game if you're getting ready for comp. I'm just talking about the dudes who only want to work their A game so they don't "lose" in the gym.

 

[Kevza]

This whole topic is upto each individual. We've all had hard rolls against monsters, and the same as we've all rolled with people who are very weak and not explosive at all. I always know from each of my gym buddies, what the roll is generally going to be like and then go from there. That only applies when you've been at a regular gym for a while mind you. Ive also came across people who mention ' can we go easy, I have an injury ? ' , and then I start gentle and they try and steamroll me. What is that all about ? lol

 

[JustSomeGuy]

At 43, I can definitely say yes. But it's very subjective.

 

[LaBrian]

There's nothing wrong with trying to win all the time. That doesn't mean putting winning above facilitating the health and safety of your training partner; you can do both at the same time.

I agree, I should have said, If every time you step on the mat, all you care about is winning the training, and you'll do whatever it takes to win, regardless of the consequences, than you are doing it wrong. In my school the shorthand for that behavior, is "he's always trying to win training" or "all he cares about is winning training". Its usually followed by, I can avoid making eye contact with him when its time to find a new partner. People that roll like that are dangerous, they aren't trying to learn, they are just having a dick measuring contest.

Sure you can "go too hard". I see guys all the time ramping it up, cranking each other's necks and ankles, cranking on subs, and try to fight out of submissions with strength and walk off the mat with messed up necks, joints and ligaments.

Most injuries from rolling are self inflicted from this behavior.

 

[Rod1]

Yes, when im playing around with a white belt and he puts a tight hold he saw on pro-wrestling that causes incredibly pain and discomfort, when that happens, i wont tap, but the moment i get out ill roll "hard".

Last one i gave a white belt the opportunity to try a triangle choke from guard so i give him the head and arm, instead of going for the triangle he instead scissors my head and puts his arms around his legs and squeezes the fuck out, i felt like i was passing out from neck and head pressure alone, felt like someone just karate chopped my head.

Joy became pain, pain became frustration, frustration became rage, so i stacked him out and endured, the guy probably held for like 30 seconds but felt like half an hour, moment i got out i passed and roughed him up real hard i was really mad.

Time came out and i cooled up and the guy was "Thanks for letting me work, people just play pretty rough against me" and then i couldnt get mad at the guy.

 

[eembach]

Rolling hard is often associated with being out of control or causing pain or discomfort but it doesn't always have to be that way, this is mainly a beginner problem. I think there is an inherent difficulty in attempting to roll as hard as possible and maintain control and fluiditity much like driving a car at high speed and under precise control is a difficult skill to master.

 

[WARRIOR POET]

you ever have someone ask you a question and when you go to answer it they just turn around and don't listen

forum etiquette
1) start a thread because YOU want to have a discussion in it
2) respond to replies


holy shit

 

[Dirty Holt]

In before Dirtyholt makes a comment about us all being wusses for not going 100% all the time. :icon_chee

My instructor bitched at me last week because I go too light on people. I would say 80% of my training is live rolling, 20% of that is at full clip, simply because I dont want to drive all of my training partners off. Any wrestling I do is a different subject, as its way more difficult for wrestlers to understand going live at 70%

 

[Kalma]

I'm not sure how people define 'hard' but my interpretation of 100% is you are going all out...i.e trying to do everything to its maximum potential. So that would be trying to make sure the arm snaps in the armbar, trying to make sure they black out from the choke etc...

Or is that not what 100% means ?

 

[magick]

You should always be going 100%. I think it's a mistake to think that going too "hard" means you're going 100%.

There will obviously be a difference in someone who did BJJ for 10 years going 100% and a guy who did BJJ for a month going 100% in terms of technique and actual ability. But that isn't the point.

See, just because you're going 100% doesn't mean you're driving the guy into the ground when you throw them (in judo) or that you're applying as much force as humanly possible when you get a submission going. You should ALWAYS have control over what you do. If you don't, then you shouldn't even be sparring because you're a danger to others.

Going 100% means that you're actually trying to do whatever you intend to do in that particular session. If you're sparring against someone significantly worse than you, then you let yourself get into stupid positions and figure a way out, you practice things that you plain suck at, etc. Stuff like that.

But sparring against someone and not trying is a disservice to both you and your partner.

 

[King Creatine]

Look bruh.. Go hard or go home! Truth. Hashtag not really

 

[BrainBar2014]

Depends who you are training with and what for. For tournament, train all out, with another person wanting to train like that. Don't go all out with the 50 year old guy with a sore back who just does BJJ to stay active....unless he asks you too.

But what I HATE is this: You partner up with someone, and they start saying "Man, Im so gassed, I don't have much left for ya" and/or "Im so exhausted, wanna just slow roll it or take this one easy".........and then I say sure, lets just slow roll this one, flow a little bit.

And you touch hands, and then he goes like its the NCAA Division 1 wrestling championship final match with ADCC scouts on hand.

Lame.

 

[dmesser2]

Rolling hard/with intensity is something that has to be earned. Its just like walking into the weight room and trying to bench press the world, if you don't know what you're doing you're gonna get hurt +/- never progress. If you've put your time in, intense training is good for you and safe (relative to the sport).

 

[PointyShinyBurn]

trying to do everything to its maximum potential. So that would be trying to make sure the arm snaps in the armbar, trying to make sure they black out from the choke etc...

These are not remotely the same. I almost always do the latter, but almost never the former.

 

[Respeezy]

I'm pretty liberal, but if you have to say "oops" you're going to fucking hard.

When you say oops you were actually paying attention to the other.

The only thing I would consider as "going too hard" would be not paying attention to what you're actually doing to the other fellow.

This, i feel people go to hard when they are totally disregarding their rolling partner.
Not paying attention if the guy has hands free to tap, grabbing handfull of skin and not letting go, just kicking full force in someones face trying to stop a pass etc.

 

[BJJ NINJA]

Of course there is.