Is there something wrong

[Jack V Savage]

That's actually pretty spot on. I'm working with translation theory now and the notion of the Hegelian "concrete universal" is a term which is thrown around a lot and is very relevant to contemporary translation theory. The thing is, Hegel is one of the most difficult philosophers to get a handle on, and the way he describes the theory makes it incredibly difficult for young students to grasp. I've taken to using a description of the Platonic world of forms and the ideal chair VS the material chair as a way to explain how concrete universality works since the concepts are very similar. When I do so, I'm often met with this kind of reaction - a general distaste for Plato in virtue of his social engineering. Because he believed the "wrong things" he is shunned by many students - and they're getting this from other profs. It's like many students want you to preface bringing up Plato with "While I know he was an evil, tyrannical man, but..."

So aren't those students receiving a valuable service? They being forced to take seriously (not agree with) thought that is alien to them. Even if they end up rejecting it and going on as before, they'll end up better off. That's a type of experience everyone should have--a lot, ideally.

 

[ehtheist]

So aren't those students receiving a valuable service? They being forced to take seriously (not agree with) thought that is alien to them. Even if they end up rejecting it and going on as before, they'll end up better off. That's a type of experience everyone should have--a lot, ideally.

That's the thing - I wonder if they are receiving progressively less and less of that service as time goes on? I can think of many of the most popular courses in our department which have reading lists almost designed to reinforce a certain way of looking it things rather than present a breadth of different viewpoints. I can understand this with focused courses, but 100 and 200 level courses? Those strike me as the ones which should be presenting opposing viewpoints and unpopular thinkers, rather than reinforcing individual schools of thought.

Even at the higher levels, trying to raise a discussion about the concept of "the Universal" as anything but a cultural specific concept rather than an actual metaphysical or ontological universal is like trying to pull teeth. The idea of absolutes is still alive and well - or at least, it should be - but the breadth of thought on it is woefully underrepresented in the deparments I am around. Simply put, no-one wants to even consider it because it would distract from the department's focus on Butlerian style universality. Students in our department aren't even aware that thinking beyond a certain school is going on unless they come from a far off country - because they aren't learning it our feeder schools.

I do agree that this is one of the valuable services a university can provide, and it does provide that... But, how did I put it earlier? "I think some departments count the pitfalls as their virtues, no less, liberating from the "prejudices of common sense" only shackle the young thinker with the prejudice of (insert school of thought here.)" I see hiring practices which are more and more "hire your friends" and "hire people who write papers on the same thing as you." As you said, this needs to be improved upon, and your police corruption analogy is a good one. That being said, it doesn't mean we shouldn't be wary of police even if don't want to undermine the whole system - and it doesn't mean we shouldn't approach universities from a standpoint of their actual, current merits rather than what they could potentially do for us.

If you send your kid into a lot of universities today, you might find they come out with more of a closed mind than when they came in - knowing more, but really needing a lesson in humility, Socrates style.

 

[spamking]

Oh my . . . if you have to post something that claims your degree is valid I'm thinking it really isn't . . .

 

[InvestigatorIL]

Free PUBLIC college TS. People can still work their way through private college that now costs upwards of 50,000/year. This is 2016, nobody can work their way through college anymore. Graduate from a 4 year school and you are 150K - 200K in debt. Lets be honest when having the debate. Public college would be free for people WHO CANT AFFORD IT and that number is growing and growing daily.

Also, only right wingers would complain about giving away education. So basically young poor kids should just get a job right? Making 10/hour. Well Bernie wants to offer an alternative and you are bitching about that too? You guys are idiots

 

[InvestigatorIL]

But free means free...there is no such thing

somebody has to pay for this shit.

Dumbest post of the year award, Do your research, he actually explains how he is paying for this stuff

 

[ILLogic]

Do you have any disability compensation? If so, you may able to use Voc Rehab under the VA to complete another degree.....

No disability compensation. Thanks for asking though.

 

[SleepyBoy]

If you have a job that can completely pay for school, then you probably don't need to go

 

[panamaican]

Do you have any disability compensation? If so, you may able to use Voc Rehab under the VA to complete another degree.....

I hope you're not suggesting that he abuse the system?

 

[HunterSdVa29]

I hope you're not suggesting that he abuse the system?

You can't abuse the system, there's specific requirements, which is why i asked if he was a disabled vet...

Thanks for playing tho

 

[HunterSdVa29]

No disability compensation. Thanks for asking though.

No problem, let me know if you ever have any VA Issues. Being a transition advisor, that's literally my job and i can get mad stuff straightened out....just saying

 

[kpt018]

I worked full time through college and it is hard as fuck. And tbh, I still needed to take out significant loans. When you're in your late teens and early twenties you make shit money and college is very expensive.

Plus, it takes focus away from studying, meeting people, banging around new ideas and going out on your own for the first time. I wish I could do it over and work minimally. My daughter will not be working while in college.

And for those who hate on the arts majors, well, we all can't be accountants and engineers right? Here are a few quotes from Einstein, but there are lots of brilliant folks that share a love of art.

"The value of an education in a liberal arts college is not the learning of many facts, but the training of the mind to think of something that cannot be learned from textbooks."

"The greatest scientists are artists as well,"

I'm not one who thinks college is simply a place to train employees (this coming from a CPA).

 

[ralphc1]

Does the G.I. Bill not exist anymore or something? Honest question. I've known plenty of people over the years that used the military to both mature as men, and earn money for college. If I had it all to do over again I'd do that too.

I've known people from the Vietnam era to the present who tried that route and didn't get to use the benefits due to disability or death.

 

[Forkfoot]

Our taxes have been paying billions in corporate welfare, trillions in unconscionable military interventionism, billions into the prison-for-profit industry, a trillion on the ineffective and failed war on drugs, but helping some kids get an education is greedy? Fuck you.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Of all my friends in college I think only one is working his way through but his rent is paid for by his dad. He still has to pay for other monthly expenses that aren't included in the rent but having those $500/month off his shoulders definitely helps him save up for the next semester. I'd bet he could still do it if he really had to but he would have to work more hours and he already works full time so it might effect his studies either directly via reducing needed study time or indirectly by adding stress that could hinder him in the long run.

 

[Islam Imamate]

So what? You're not doing it for a job, are you? You were implying that market income should be more valued in society than learning and that education should be measured in terms of income. That kind of thinking is disturbing, IMO.

I understand what you're saying Jack but as a college student I can tell you my peers are mostly concerned with the income. I hear much more talk of income and networking than any consideration with learning.

One could enter the trades, make a respectable income, read in one's down time for personal intellectual growth, and then pursue higher education later in life for the love of learning instead of obsessing with networking and a piece of paper for 4 years with little reward and a lot of debt at the end.

Of course if a young person does have a passion for a certain field there's nothing wrong with pursuing a job in that field from the get go by entering college but many young people are told that college is the only path to success so they enter with an undecided major and flounder around for years before dragging their feet at the end when they might be much better suited to a trade.

 

[Bukowski82]

Worst OP I've ever read...

 

[Jack V Savage]

I understand what you're saying Jack but as a college student I can tell you my peers are mostly concerned with the income. I hear much more talk of income and networking than any consideration with learning.

Sure, but they still have to take general ed classes and stuff. Not everyone is going to get the same amount out of their education, but I think it's important that people get it, and I don't agree with the view of it just as being about making people more attractive job candidates.

One could enter the trades, make a respectable income, read in one's down time for personal intellectual growth, and then pursue higher education later in life for the love of learning instead of obsessing with networking and a piece of paper for 4 years with little reward and a lot of debt at the end.

Yeah, but the number of people who would do that is a lot lower than the number of people who go in for a career and come out with a more fully furnished soul.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Sure, but they still have to take general ed classes and stuff. Not everyone is going to get the same amount out of their education, but I think it's important that people get it, and I don't agree with the view of it just as being about making people more attractive job candidates.

Its certainly perceived as being mainly for making oneself an attractive job candidate by many of today's crop of college students. I think the "college experience" is another reason many go. Now I'm sure you would like to think that the "college experience" is about bettering oneself on an intellectual level and it would be nice if that were the case but really its generally referring to the gratuitous image manufactured in pop culture over the last few decades that has much more to do with partying and sex than knowledge.

Yeah, but the number of people who would do that is a lot lower than the number of people who go in for a career and come out with a more fully furnished soul.

Well the number of people who do that is increasing and I would say its probably partly a result of this idea that college is the only viable path to a successful career.

And what is a fully furnished soul exactly?

 

[Jack V Savage]

Its certainly perceived as being mainly for making oneself an attractive job candidate by many of today's crop of college students.

Yeah, and I'm criticizing that view while adding that even kids who perceive it that way get the benefits of education.

And what is a fully furnished soul exactly?

I said "more fully furnished." The thing about knowledge is that it builds on itself. If you know more about a subject, you're more equipped to take on additional knowledge. That applies to art and philosophy, too.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Yeah, and I'm criticizing that view while adding that even kids who perceive it that way get the benefits of education.

Well its a view that is rather prominent right now, even among teachers and parents, and its a big part of why many young people go onto college even if you and I disagree with it.

I'm sure anyone who completes a college education well get something more than they anticipated but if the attitude is to complete the education simply for better career prospects I think that's going to hinder any possible additional benefits which, if taken as whole, might not offset the debt that the student accrues during their college years.

I said "more fully furnished." The thing about knowledge is that it builds on itself. If you know more about a subject, you're more equipped to take on additional knowledge. That applies to art and philosophy, too.

True but if the primary intention of a student is to expand ones job opportunities with the secondary one being enjoying the "college experience" one has to wonder if after graduating they're going to continue to expand their knowledge in any meaningful way. Not to mention nowadays the average person's access to knowledge has expanded immensely with the internet. One could simply read for that purpose and its a lot cheaper than investing in an education that might not pay for itself anytime soon.

And for some people that might not be their priority. They may prefer a good income, stable employment, and a job they find some level of satisfaction in and the trades could be exactly that for many people who might not get that from going to college.