This was posted on the "TMA gets defensive" thread by VampireMonk, and I'm wondering how many of you feel this way, and if so why? Do you guys think there is more to grappling (or the particular Art you practice) then just "sport fighting/winning"?
I came from TMA, but study bjj and Muay Thai for their obvious practical application. But I take the whole spiritual/mental aspects of TMA into my current training. I've learned for myself how to take lessons from training into everyday life and vise-verse. Hard to explain, but if I were to summarize, it's about learning to adapt, overcoming hardships, patience, learning, and most importantly goal-setting. I love sport fighting, but that in itself is unsatisfying. At a certain point when one trains long enough, (as corny as it sounds) there is a "spiritual" side of martial arts. You're not concerned about kicking ass anymore. That doesn't mean you just want to "lay there" either. It's a mental shift you can't teach someone, but one comes about it on their own along this journey.
man I dunno about spirituality in martial arts....I leave that for church...BUT , any athlete learns valuable lessons when they practice hard enough and pay thier dues in their respective sports. Like BJJ guys learn that patience, timing and endurance can defeat a bigger, stronger, faster opponent. Yada yada.. You alo reach plateus and push past them and achieve goals you have set...so yeah I guess any sport/art has it's own reward. As for taking a style for the purpose of being spiritual...blah!
The simple fact that you said you leave that to "Church" means youve picked that particular "style" of religeon for spiritual satisfaction.... In other TMA its incorporated into its teachings.... ps. There is no God, santa clause, or the boogy man.. Just incase you didnt get the memo
Exactly. My point was however that my opinion of TMA's is they are largely ineffective due to the practice habits of said styles. However the addition of spiritual enlightenment is a marketing gimic..lol... but i was also alludig to the fact that you can get enlightenment from sport based styles as well by smashing barriers and pushing yourself to levels you never knew you could reach. but most of that stuff was in the other thread anyway.
I see a lot of threads on BJJ-dominated forums about TMAs and their delusions about the completeness of their style, and it makes me laugh. As if people are going out, pulling guard, and working for the triangle in a bar. There is no such thing as a complete martial art, that is an utter myth. A lot of the wristlocks and stuff they use in Aikido are ridiculous, but so is trying to put a guy in an omoplata on the side of the road. At the same time, I think every martial art DOES have something to offer in terms of real combat. A TKD kick can knock out a guy in a streetfight, and single leg > take the back > RNC is certainly not a bad way to stop an altercation. It's all about not getting too caught up in the egotistical "my art ROCKS" shit and objectively evaluating the effectiveness not of an art, but of singular manuevers, in street combat.
i don't think that was the point of this thread..... When I say spiritual, I don't mean religion in any way. I just mean as a way to keep one's life balanced.
There is a God partner! I hope one day you might see that. As to the question of spirituality and MMA...I love to fight, why do I need to seek enlightenment in the form of TMA or sports philosophy? Who am I, Ryu form StreetFighter? I seek personal fullfilment through my Faith, I get physical satisfaction and mental stimulation from MMA and grappling- not too mention meeting new freinds, travelling, winning, losing, joking around and getting fit too!
Interesting question, made me think a bit. Lets see, I don't compete and I haven't gotten into a fight since the 8th grade.... I am person #118 on a muggers or bullies list because I am big. I don't get drunk in bars and try to fight people, so "streetfighting" is highly unlikely... Lets see, I like the exercise aspect as a stress release. I like the mental chess aspect as well-- its cool trying to out think the other guy -- seeing what he is up to and countering it. I like that it is slowly changing me from a tub of goo to someone who is more coordinated, stronger and athletic... still a lot of work to do on that front... As for spiritual aspect, occassionally on the mat when rolling, time slows down to a crawl, then dissapears; your constant interior dialog stops, and you just move, I've heard meditation is like that... that my favorite part... bjj can make your "self" dissapear for a little while... I find that very refreshing. I think everyone gets on their own nerves at times, its nice to shut that off.
i grapple for the same reason i play chess ( i grapple better than i play chess at this point). to see if i am better than my opponent. i find grapplling challenging in a way that few other sports are, it also happens to be the sport i find myself excelling at. as far as the spiritual side to it, i'll pass, as i don't believe in much more than what science has shown us to be.
You can achieve enlightenment or harmony in any pursuit you concentrate on or put your mind into, it is just the fact that martial arts uses your mind and body in accord that gives it the edge of dedication and oneness over, say, checkers. On the other subject, i have seen people arm barred outside of clubs and can say that it was alot safer and faster than kicks to the head.
There are enough weirdos knocking on my door every week trying to convert me to some kind of bs religion without having that nonsense in my grappling classes too.
if you go to a gym to learn to fight on the street, you're a fool. spend your time and money on moving to a town you dont have to worry about getting jumped in...
Sounds good, do you have the address of that town for me? Remember, its not paranoia if they really ARE after you.
To me, grappling and all reality based martial arts are intensely spiritual. Not "religion" spiritual, but IMO much, much more than that. Grappling has improved my problem-solving skills, my confidence is 100xwhat it was before I started, I discovered that I love to dance, I
I've found martial arts helped me develop as a person in a number ways. I don't know if you could refer to them as spiritual or not. What I've noticed is that training has really helped build up my self discipline and fortitude. Just pushing myself through hard sessions, getting the shit thrown out of me in judo have made a lot of other things in my life seem easy. I don't reallly have the same problems of not being able to push myself that i usef to have, be it studying or simply getting out of bed in the morning. Martial Arts are a singular activity, you can't blame someone else like you'd be inclined to do in team sports. This feeds into the discipline and fortitude things but also means if you want to improve yourself, you need to be analyse and think critically about yourself. Obviously this has a spillover effect into a lot of stuff off the mat. I think the "Musashi" book, is a good example, if a bit extreme, of how a dedication to training can help bring about development and growth in a person
Again I think maybe we confuse the style and techniques taught in a style with the method fo teching said techniques. To me a TKD roundhouse looks alot like what I see in K-1. Those kicks hurt people and hurt them badly. The elbow strikes I learned in Ueahi Ryu look alot like what I see being thrown in MT and MMA comps. What makes the difference to me is the WAy it is trained. Sure my elbow strikes LOOK like the other guys but I never was able to apply it in practice Soooooooooo I dont have any idea of the timing of the strike and it's effectiveness and the range for me is a little bit questionable. Plus I haven't thrown that enough "live" to know how effective I am at it. I DO know that I have some good trips and bodylocks for takedown purposes, and I also do know I have good hold downs. I also know if you dangle your arm in front of my from my guard there is a good chance I land an armbar on you. Thats what i am talking about. Is there more than winning? YES sure there is...its called LEARNING and seeing PROGRESS. With the "sport based" styles I dont NEED anyone to hand me a colored belt to tell me I am getting better, I know that from the results of the practices and matches should I decide to enter them. The other way you basically are relying on 1 person to TELL you .."you are better now here is your green belt." Sure you may throw that kick better but can you land it? what will the effect be if it does? ARE YOU SURE you will get the result you are looking for? ^^^^ I dont like the above mentioned method. Just my opinion.
VampireMonk posts some stupid/cryptic shit sometimes. I wouldn't spend too much time thinking about it. If you study a martial art as a sport, then it's no different then playing soccer, football, or hockey. Should those sport players be meditating and seeking enlightenment, or should they be revelling in the thrill of competition, and just having fun? The fact that we are treating this martial art like a game/sport makes many RPSD and TMA folks uncomfortable, because they're all "way of life" and whatever, and a recreational grappler can beat their ass.
