Is there a hierarchy of grips and holds for gi and no-gi

This question is inspired by the grip fighting thread. Is there a hierarchy of grips and holds for gi and no-gi in the takedown game? Or is there certain parts of the body to get a hold of that are more dominant than others. Like is controlling the head the best thing, thereby getting both hands deep on the collar is preferable. Or do you always go for a high crotch if you can?

Obviously if you can get behind your opponent you can bear hug him, and he can never grip you. But what if you are facing each other.

Certain Grappling styles like Schwingen, and Scottish Backhold limit the amounts of grips to like one type. Is the over the top belt grip the ultimate grip?

 

http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/f12/basic-judo-grip-fighting-1899433

http://judoadvisor.com/2009/02/an-introduction-to-kumi-kata-grip-fighting-for-novice-judo-athletes/

 

Sorry, I find those passages to be difficult to follow.

Be a chap and just give me cliffs.

 

It would seem that in no-gi the grip or hold fighting is more evident and easier to see and understand.

Like in high school, if you can get the proper double leg, or if you can get the textbook body lock with your arms underneath your opponent and controlling him, then you have a dominant hold on your opponent. Your opponent cannot do the same to you unless he breaks your hold first. So there, you can see how the grip or hold fighting is taking place. It is very visible and evident.

In jacket styles, this seems less obvious. To me, it was always just grab tight, dont let go, do your off balancing and get your hips deep. I guess I thought the battle was all about the hips and legs.

Also there are jacket styles that just limit you to one type of grip like Schwingen, and Scottish Backhold. Why is that?

 

In high level (ie international and above) judo, anyone who gets their strong grip (and that will depend on the individual, their favorite throw, body type etc) will send their opponent sailing. What everyone is trying to do is get their grip, and deny their opponent theirs.

In practice, at that level its rare for either to get their strongest grip, and even when they do it rarely lasts more than a few seconds (tho' I admit I'm following less and less high level judo since 2008 and all the new restrictions so that might have changed) and most of the time both are working from compromised positions.

In short, the hierarchy is based on whatever your and your opponent's strong grip is; it varies between each pair of fighters.

 

yeh i've always wanted to see one of these as well. It could be a great tool. an illustrated guide from multiple positions with a hierarchy of grips (particularly grips you absolutely cannot give up) would be great. I didn't get knowledgeable with grip position until my purple belt, and even then it was just intuition, i was never actually taught, i always felt like it was a hole in my game.

Grip fighting felt like a random event for the longest time, with experience though it becomes a chess match. It is a hugely under trained (and under explained) part of bjj.

 

Awesome posts, thanks!

 

Agreed. i have waited years for a definitive or at least coherent & well-organized BJJ gripfighting instructional.

some feel it is too situational to be taught independent of specific moves and contexts. but judo has plenty to teach on the standing gripfight. why shouldn't BJJ have likewise on the ground?

 

In the Galvao hook sweep thread, a poster mentioned Marcelo Garcia does indeed have a gripfighting system, although he has never formally explained it in depth.

Another typical example: back in the day, Royler's no-gi book devoted some pages to a catalog of no-gi grips, but made no mention on how & when to obtain them

Saulo's much recommended University of Jiu Jitsu book: zero instruction on gripfighting at even a basic level

 

I think I have a way to defend against the very thing you asked about in that other thread (how to prevent your opponent from just grabbing your sleeve after you get your own sleeve grip), but I have no idea how to describe it. I just do it.