Is there a difference between Sanda and Sanshou ?

[thequann]

So, I've only been training about 3 weeks now. But during warm ups/stretches my coach talks about his students/other fighters. He refers to SanDa and Sanshou as 2 different styles.
but when I search this site they almost seem to be used interchangeably. I'm just wondering what the differences are? or are they the same style?
Sorry if this question is stupid, but I'm new . And i did search .
EDIT: To specify, he doesn't refer to them to be as different as like , I dunno , a striking style and a grappling style. He just says things like "Hes is fighting more Sanshou that he is Sanda"

 

[leftlegkicker]

So, I've only been training about 3 weeks now. But during warm ups/stretches my coach talks about his students/other fighters. He refers to SanDa and Sanshou as 2 different styles.
but when I search this site they almost seem to be used interchangeably. I'm just wondering what the differences are? or are they the same style?
Sorry if this question is stupid, but I'm new . And i did search .
EDIT: To specify, he doesn't refer to them to be as different as like , I dunno , a striking style and a grappling style. He just says things like "Hes is fighting more Sanshou that he is Sanda"

According to wikipedia, the differences are:

1) Sanda is the older name and more commonly used.

2) Amateur sanshou allows kicks, punches, and throws. Sanda allows kicks, punches, throws, and knees.

Sanshou - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'd imagine that the different rule sets have resulted in some differences in the way fighters approach the match, thus your instructors comments that someone fights more sanshou than sanda. Probably differences in the way they fight in the clinch. If someone is used to rules that only allow them to throw from the clinch, then they will probably approach the clinch differently that someone who is used to setting up throws and/or knees.

Why don't you ask your coach?

 

[ambertch]

So in China it's called Sanda and internationally it's known more as sanshou. i don't really know why.

You mentioned someone saying "o he's fighting more sanda than sanshou" - I haven't heard anyone say something like that, but there's definitely a stylistic difference. A lot of it is due to the fact that in China people will train exclusively Sanda from the beginning and take on that style. Internationally people often come into Sanshou from tkd, kickboxing, boxing, wrestling, etc. and carry their styles into Sanshou since the rulesets are loose enough to allow all these styles to mostly "fight their fight" still.


Pure Sanda in China is very TKD-ish in the stance and footwork. Lots of movement, sidekicks used as jabs then going in for takedowns (but few leg attacks). For takedowns there's also emphasis on high altitude throws (which are illegal in wrestling) since they score more points. Also, very high level of kick catching ability is hallmark of Chinese practitioners.

Sanshou as international - well Cung Le is a pretty good representation of it. More kickboxing style. Tend to have better hands and more willingness/ability to stand and trade, more leg attacks for the takedowns with American sanshou practitioners who come from wrestling and like to shoot in.


O yeah, in Sanshou/sanda your knees can't touch the ground so that affects the wrestling shot as well

 

[Kin]

One of the coaches at Marvin Perry's gym (Red Line Fight Sports, formerly Boston San Da) explained to me that the major differences in style because of the difference in scoring. He said that San Da is more like kickboxing, where you're trying to beat the guy up with punches, kicks, knees, and throws. It's like a normal kickboxing match, where its judged on who landed more, who did more damage, who controlled the pace, etc. On the other hand, San Shou is more like continuous point fighting (albeit, full contact), where the judging is on the accumulated tallies a fighter earns from landing clean strikes and throws.

One of the fighters from that gym is currently trying to make a change in his style -- from San Da to San Shou, since he's trying out for Worlds later in July. Though he was already a pretty elusive fighter, they're really trying to up his hit and run game. The coach explained to me that the reason for this was that judges would pay most attention to who lands the first and last hit in an exchange, and that blows that were lost in the fray wouldn't often be scored.

I, personally, don't know too much about this. I've only fought in one San Da match and I've never done San Shou before, but I train at an MMA gym that uses San Da as its base striking style and I often visit Red Line.

 

[thequann]

One of the coaches at Marvin Perry's gym (Red Line Fight Sports, formerly Boston San Da) explained to me that the major differences in style because of the difference in scoring. He said that San Da is more like kickboxing, where you're trying to beat the guy up with punches, kicks, knees, and throws. It's like a normal kickboxing match, where its judged on who landed more, who did more damage, who controlled the pace, etc. On the other hand, San Shou is more like continuous point fighting (albeit, full contact), where the judging is on the accumulated tallies a fighter earns from landing clean strikes and throws.

One of the fighters from that gym is currently trying to make a change in his style -- from San Da to San Shou, since he's trying out for Worlds later in July. Though he was already a pretty elusive fighter, they're really trying to up his hit and run game. The coach explained to me that the reason for this was that judges would pay most attention to who lands the first and last hit in an exchange, and that blows that were lost in the fray wouldn't often be scored.

I, personally, don't know too much about this. I've only fought in one San Da match and I've never done San Shou before, but I train at an MMA gym that uses San Da as its base striking style and I often visit Red Line.

Woah
same gym as me x]

 

[thequann]

Thanks for all the responses guys.
I've been wondering for a while. at first i figured it was just name, but now I see it is more than that. I'll read the whole wiki article later.

 

[Randy Chung]

One of the coaches at Marvin Perry's gym (Red Line Fight Sports, formerly Boston San Da) explained to me that the major differences in style because of the difference in scoring. He said that San Da is more like kickboxing, where you're trying to beat the guy up with punches, kicks, knees, and throws. It's like a normal kickboxing match, where its judged on who landed more, who did more damage, who controlled the pace, etc. On the other hand, San Shou is more like continuous point fighting (albeit, full contact), where the judging is on the accumulated tallies a fighter earns from landing clean strikes and throws.

One of the fighters from that gym is currently trying to make a change in his style -- from San Da to San Shou, since he's trying out for Worlds later in July. Though he was already a pretty elusive fighter, they're really trying to up his hit and run game. The coach explained to me that the reason for this was that judges would pay most attention to who lands the first and last hit in an exchange, and that blows that were lost in the fray wouldn't often be scored.

I, personally, don't know too much about this. I've only fought in one San Da match and I've never done San Shou before, but I train at an MMA gym that uses San Da as its base striking style and I often visit Red Line.

DAMN IT maybe that's why I lost in Sanshou!!!

I could have sworn I was winning the fight. Landed way more strikes and throws, dictated the pace.

Jeez I wonder if they even counted any points in the second round cause I was owning him with my boxing.

You can check out the match here:

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f11/am-i-being-sore-loser-sanshou-critic-mma-suggestions-1002816/

 

[thequann]

DAMN IT maybe that's why I lost in Sanshou!!!

I could have sworn I was winning the fight. Landed way more strikes and throws, dictated the pace.

Jeez I wonder if they even counted any points in the second round cause I was owning him with my boxing.

You can check out the match here:

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f11/am-i-being-sore-loser-sanshou-critic-mma-suggestions-1002816/

Yeah i saw that . looked like you dominated but I'm really not too sure on this whole Sanshou Vs San Da scoring thing so i can't really say haha .

 

[Kin]

Woah
same gym as me x]

It was Josh, who was telling me and Danny about it.

DAMN IT maybe that's why I lost in Sanshou!!!

I could have sworn I was winning the fight. Landed way more strikes and throws, dictated the pace.

Jeez I wonder if they even counted any points in the second round cause I was owning him with my boxing.

You can check out the match here:

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f11/am-i-being-sore-loser-sanshou-critic-mma-suggestions-1002816/

I saw your MMA fight -- good work! I'll check out your San Shou match later tonight.

It's nice to see another San Da/ San Shou based MMA fighter! We're a rare breed. (I hardly count, though, since I'm terrible at San Da.)

 

[ambertch]

One of the coaches at Marvin Perry's gym (Red Line Fight Sports, formerly Boston San Da) explained to me that the major differences in style because of the difference in scoring. He said that San Da is more like kickboxing, where you're trying to beat the guy up with punches, kicks, knees, and throws. It's like a normal kickboxing match, where its judged on who landed more, who did more damage, who controlled the pace, etc. On the other hand, San Shou is more like continuous point fighting (albeit, full contact), where the judging is on the accumulated tallies a fighter earns from landing clean strikes and throws.

One of the fighters from that gym is currently trying to make a change in his style -- from San Da to San Shou, since he's trying out for Worlds later in July. Though he was already a pretty elusive fighter, they're really trying to up his hit and run game. The coach explained to me that the reason for this was that judges would pay most attention to who lands the first and last hit in an exchange, and that blows that were lost in the fray wouldn't often be scored.

I, personally, don't know too much about this. I've only fought in one San Da match and I've never done San Shou before, but I train at an MMA gym that uses San Da as its base striking style and I often visit Red Line.

That coach is talking about professional sanda in china - Sandawong (King of Sanda). Those fights are more like K-1 with throws. But amateur sanda in China is still like the Sanshou the coach described to you

 

[Kin]

That coach is talking about professional sanda in china - Sandawong (King of Sanda). Those fights are more like K-1 with throws. But amateur sanda in China is still like the Sanshou the coach described to you

The San Da he was describing matches my (brief) experience fighting in San Da as well as my teammates' fights that I've seen -- all of which were amateur.