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Is there a clear ceiling for modern fighters who have no martial arts backgrounds?

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by Helmut Zemo, Aug 1, 2015.

  1. Helmut Zemo Purple Belt

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    Guys like Magny, MacDonald, Schaub, Mitrione, Manuwa, etc. They don't have a wheelhouse they can go to that they feel comfortable in, try to mix up since MMA was the thing they really started. Like Magny for example, was always going to find himself grappling with Maia at some point, and it obviously wasn't going to end well if you looked at the match-up objectively.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2015
  2. Minnja Touch-Butt white belt Platinum Member

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    Rich Franklin became a champion and has a pretty impressive record.

    If Maia gassed like he did against Rory he could have lost. Magny still is a developing fighter I think. Idk if he'll ever be a top 5ish fighter but he could get there. Maia if he doesn't gas can beat any WW
     
  3. iwhoopedbatman Fox Hunter Extraordinaire

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    Ufc gold.
     
  4. Helmut Zemo Purple Belt

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    Didn't Franklin do karate or something before MMA? I'm talking about fighters that just started with MMA as the first martial art.
     
  5. Pierced7681 Red Belt

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    Rory Mac started out with mma and he beat Maia
     
  6. snizzar Purple Belt

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    Rory Mac. Started MMA when he was like 15ish. If Lawler wasn't so damn ruthless and beastly, the divison would by far be his.

    Also, Rich Franklin didn't do karate. He's been stated saying he started out learning grappling from watching Youtube lol.

    Luke Rockhold is another one. Surfer boy who I think did a tad bit of wrestling in high school but gave it up for jitz, but doesn't have an extensive background in a single martial art.
     
  7. IloveTHIS Humble Narcissist

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    GSP didnt wrestle until he was started training MMA, and he became the best WW wrestler and top 3 GOAT mma wrestler so Id say no, no ceiling. All hardwork.
     
  8. DoctorTaco Breadhead

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    What was Jon jones' background again?
     
  9. Bones245n4847 Red Belt

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    Jon Jones was a Junior College wrestler, I doubt that's considered a martial art. He was a white belt subbing black belts.
     
  10. IloveTHIS Humble Narcissist

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    Ummm....wrestling is the OLDEST martial art in the history of man.

    Jones was pretty good, had a full scholarship offer. He was far from the best though.
     
  11. Davemeddlehed There's no mercy in this dojo!

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    Franklin taught himself by watching instructional VHS tapes in his garage like Evan Tanner.
     
  12. Helmut Zemo Purple Belt

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    True, but he uses some similar footwork and positioning for his entries on TDs that is related to his karate background. He was still someone who had an extensive background before doing MMA.

    Wrestling..
     
  13. Bones245n4847 Red Belt

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    Junior college wrestler though, that's like claiming a 13 year old kid at a mcdojo is a high level karate black belt.
     
  14. Helmut Zemo Purple Belt

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    I know about that but I thought there was some karate there too. But even if not let's just make this modern MMA. The MW division in the UFC when he ruled was complete garbage and prehistoric compared to now.
     
  15. JosephDredd Gold Belt

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    Frank Shamrock started training pancrase in his late teens. For some reason I think Vernon White started training martial arts in his late teens as well.

    Maybe Forrest Griffin and JDS? I'm not up on these new guys.
     
  16. aus101 Black Belt

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    I don't think there's a ceiling, just that it's an advantage to have a decade or more of experience over your opponent. Current top level MMA demands at least a high level wrestling base or world class BJJ (with a few strikers like Connor amongst the ranks of elite).
    It's not mandatory though, with a gifted enough fighter like GSP becoming what you say although it was genetics and hard work assisted by his actual karate base so it's not like he was untrained until his 20s.

    If his karate training did assist his wrestling shots like he said then any number of non wrestling/BJJ/kickboxing activities could provide an athlete with a useful "base" which could assist them in mastering techniques, even if they haven't trained the art since childhood, but I digress.
     
  17. Minnja Touch-Butt white belt Platinum Member

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    Yeah Griffin and JDS. JDS didn't start boxing until his early/mid twenties and he's one of the best HW and arguably the best striker in the division.
     
  18. MacDougall Brown Belt

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    What's Carlos Condit's background? Pretty sure he was an MMA fighter before he was a kickboxer and he's been fighting MMA for a long ass time.
     
  19. Minnja Touch-Butt white belt Platinum Member

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    From wiki

     
  20. Himo Purple Belt

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    Magny wrestled in high school, shitpost.
     

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