Is the Triangle Choke Dead in High Level MMA

[BRASIL WAND]

Couldn't be more wrong.

Elite BJJ players still have it in their arsenal BUT with the availability of good wrestling coaches they are adding top level wrestling to their game and choosing to hit TDs and play top game instead ala Maia, RDA, Jac, etc.

Average MMA fighters however don't fully comit to Triangles to avoid losing position and merely use them to set up scrambles.

Then you have the guys who love to play the guard game like Nate, Werdum, T-City, etc who can and DO hit Triangles at will.


Get it together lads...

 

[Seiryoku Zenyo]

That's one more reason why the UFC needs to sign Shinya Aoki.

 

[VAfan]

you'll still see it now and then, but mainly against guys with weak ground games. general defense is so good these days and guys train constantly to stay out of sub situations.

 

[Estudante]

That's one more reason why the UFC needs to sign Shinya Aoki.

would get mauled on the feet before having a chance to set up some sort of guard

 

[nintey]

I feel like RNC, Guillotine, and darc are the only subs you see these days, usually after some one is rocked silly. I can't remember the last time I saw an armbar in a men's fight.

 

[Werdun]

Pettis vs bendo

 

[chunglii]

Couldn't be more wrong.

Elite BJJ players still have it in their arsenal BUT with the availability of good wrestling coaches they are adding top level wrestling to their game and choosing to hit TDs and play top game instead ala Maia, RDA, Jac, etc.

Average MMA fighters however don't fully comit to Triangles to avoid losing position and merely use them to set up scrambles.

Then you have the guys who love to play the guard game like Nate, Werdum, T-City, etc who can and DO hit Triangles at will.


Get it together lads...

This. We don't see as many badass guard players in MMA and it's difficult to have a really dangerous guard in MMA.

 

[Blayt7hh]

I feel like RNC, Guillotine, and darc are the only subs you see these days, usually after some one is rocked silly. I can't remember the last time I saw an armbar in a men's fight.

A RNC seems to happen just about every event

 

[HaterSlayer]

I feel like RNC, Guillotine, and darc are the only subs you see these days, usually after some one is rocked silly. I can't remember the last time I saw an armbar in a men's fight.

It wasn't finished but it was close:

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

With the rule set of MMA it's much more advantageous to try and get up rather than play guard and set up submissions. The guy on top keeps scoring and if you can't get the sub, you just lost a round. So guys won't even go for them very often.

This.

It isnt that triangles are less effective than before, its that camps are very cognisant of the MMA ruleset and scoring and realize that its better for scoring to try to get up.

Thats why the few subs we see from the bottom nowadays are desperation hail mary subs when one fighter is generally gassed and knows hes losing on the score cards so he just takes a chance.

 

[Mochan]

Nobody new to the sport trains their guard offense now, because nobody likes to be at the bottom. The rules are just against you. Good camps now all focus on keeping the fight standing and winning with striking, escaping from bottom, or getting the takedown and doing shitty damage from on top.

This is just the stupid meta that's evolved in the UFC.

 

[Mochan]

I didn't know that. I thought fighters were scored on their offense from their back too or at least from any guard position. I think BJJ experts would find it more comfortable to work from any guard. The threat of a leg/ankle lock from the bottom is a high possibility. I don't think Toquinho, Aoki or Garry Tonon would be afraid of not finishing their opponent from the bottom if they had five minutes to do so.

The judges don't see it that way. When you've been watching this sport for a long time, you know that the NA judges give zilch for being on the bottom. It's just too much of a risk to stay there.

As for BJJ experts preferring to stay in guard, this is absolutely wrong and a misconception formed from the Royce Gracie mystique back in the early days of the UFC.

Most BJJ schools will train you to get position over submission, and if you've ever trained BJJ you probably found it less comfortable being on your back than being on top. Trust me, it's MUCH better on top and there are a lot of good attacks you can do from the top without needing to risk bottom position.

 

[tombombadil]

Bjj is less effective than it used to be because everyone knows bjj.

It's as simple as that. Everyone is so good at it now that they know all of the escapes and defenses to different submissions.

Still doesn't mean the high level guys won't tap people though.

5 minute rounds and standups as well. But ya, all of that

 

[Curly Peibce]

Naw, just a dry season.

 

[Taric]

Bjj is less effective than it used to be because everyone knows bjj.

 

[Mochan]

Which is sad, because offensive guard and hooking a guillotine (which would be easier to do without glovees) is still an really effective way to take someone out assuming they aren't armed with a knife in the real world.

I've been going back and rewatching some UFC fights (like 189 and 200) and even when dudes give their backs and their heads, people don't go for the rear neck as much as I would if in those situations. I wonder if they are also coaching these guys to not go for subs as much because of the amount of energy used.

It's not the energy. It's the risk of losing position.

People in the UFC are so afraid of losing position that they'd rather stay on top and pound rather than go for a sub and lose position.

RNCs are more common because they are the least risky sub to use. Once you have back mount you can screw up any number of RNC attempts and still usually not lose position.

As for offensive guard being a great way to beat people in real life, lol it's even better to take.them down and point them out from top position. Don't put yourself on your back of you don't have to, it's a big risk.

I don't know where you get your data about what's effective in the real world but believe me being on your back isn't one of them.

 

[FrontNakedChoke]

Perhaps the Loominati has finally left MMA

 

[Sherm]

Good observation by OP.

Maybe part of it is that there's a lot less lay n' pray nowadays, after the Fitch/Okami/Davis purge scared people straight.

 

[Hotei]

Why would someone work from the bottom when the rounds are 5 minutes and they know for a fact that if they don't finish they lose? You score zero points from the bottom. ZERO.

This is pretty on point.

 

[Mangkone]

The judges don't see it that way. When you've been watching this sport for a long time, you know that the NA judges give zilch for being on the bottom. It's just too much of a risk to stay there.

As for BJJ experts preferring to stay in guard, this is absolutely wrong and a misconception formed from the Royce Gracie mystique back in the early days of the UFC.

Most BJJ schools will train you to get position over submission, and if you've ever trained BJJ you probably found it less comfortable being on your back than being on top. Trust me, it's MUCH better on top and there are a lot of good attacks you can do from the top without needing to risk bottom position.

Well I have been training BJJ for five years now and I understand your point of view.
In a MMA fight I would avoid getting my opponent in my closed guard or I would end up eating elbows.
It sounds safer to be in side control, to take the back or to control the opponent on his back.
Yet when I see advanced bjj practicioners fighting from their back like Aoki I still see the guy trying to stand up and not to get caught in a submission as losing points. In BJJ competition the guy who is in the guard is the one who has the work because he is supposed to be in danger. But here again, different sport . Thanks for the explanations