Is the key to beating Machida...

[Galahad]

To outstrike him? I know that seems like suicide considering how effective he is at what he does but Machida seems to be the evolution of striking in MMA - footwork, timing, accuracy, speed - rather than plant and throw. All that seems to be very foreign to the casual MMA fan.

So what if a high level striker were to train for MMA - let's say he's equal w/ Machida at takedowns and ground - as a high level boxer or muay thai kickboxer he would be more than used to dealing with those sort of things - the angles, footwork, and timing. Therefore he would not be as flustered with Machida's striking as opposed to the the normal MMA fighter who tend to be able to have good punching/kicking skills, but not so much the footwork, etc. that high level boxers tend to have.

Is this a correct assessment?

And please if you disagree no flaming, let's keep the discussion civil.

 

[Iosephus]

someone like hendo... tough, comes at you, good in the clinch, good on the ground.

 

[chewabacca]

I'd say a sword is the key to beating machida.

The thing is that anyone whos a better striker than machida isnt going to be better on the ground.

Right now the only person whos as technically advanced as machida and as good on the ground is Anderson and we all know thats not gonna happen

 

[Mithra]

Outstriking him would work obviously but I think that is attacking his strength and thus isn't the best option.

Wrestling and or kicks..

Jon Jones, Bader, Henderson are the best wrestlers but Jones and Bader are raw and Henderson is getting older and his wrestling seems to be rusty

Forrest is the best choice imo..guy uses his reach well, has good kicks, is much bigger than Machida and has cardio.

Rashad thinking takedowns would be interesting, he passed on numerous takedown opportunities and let Machida out of the clinch...Rashad wanted to get a KO, if he had been thinking takedown ala GSP he would have been much better off

 

[PhenomKidd]

Well we need to find out if he has an effective ground game on his back, then the fighter will need to know if they can expose it as a weakness or overcome it by being better then his shown skill. That's whats needed to be done first I think.

BTW, Rampage is gonna get KTFO. He had me interested at UFC 94 with his win over Silva and made me a believer at UFC 98 against Evans.

 

[devante]

he was only on his back once, an got right back on top; also the difference w/him and other strikers, is they seek to def the takedown and fight from the outside. Machida fights from the outside, comes in and sweeps you off the punch, or steps around and sweeps u while going in for the clinch, or sweeps/trips you from the clinch. An if you clinch/shoot, he stuffs it and resets or counters, locks you up and takes you down.

machida looks to go to the ground, unlike alot of strikes; who often seek to stay as far away as possible, its hard to deal w/a fighter who is willing to test you in your area of strength (i.e. takedowns/clinches/throws/trips/sweeps). i think it throws guys off because he is picking you apart from the outside, then u come in and clinch and instead of maintaining the space, he locks up w/u and sweeps or catches you coming in and sweeps.

so now u have to def his striking; but also HIS takedown attempts, which is a dynamic most of the "striker" don't have in their game. Putting him on his back seems good, but you can't just focus on that cus a)his range/angles b)his strikes c)his takedown; chuck had a legit wrestling b/g as does evans and they both eschewed it for striking. Machida is a legit striker and he is constantly looking for the takedown, not just defending it so he can strike. That makes him even more unpredictable, because he is hard to takedown and hard to def takedowns against; an his gnp is vicious.

silva
nakamura
soko
ortiz
penn
all guys he took down, all have legit judo/wrestling/submission wrestling/bjj exp and ALL of them were put on their ass multiple times

and the majority could not stifle or counter his gnp/top game once he got on them as ortiz got beat senseless, evans was handled on the ground, soko was submitted, silva koed

 

[workdiggitz]

yeah i think a good wrestler would give him a hard time, and i would say that tito stood a great chance but hes afraid to get hit so he dosent shoot like he should have

 

[devante]

also machida has legit submission and gnp skills; if he gets on top of you he is gonna put a hurting on you, he isn't doing it just to score points

 

[1Strike]

I think a K-1 level striker would have a good chance at beating him standing , but the problem is there are no strikers of that caliber in the UFC.

I think a southpaw of K-1 level striking like Cropcop (if only he was a Light heavyweight).
or a fast Muay Thai fighter with good push kicks to stop Lyoto's straight punch flurries , and fast powerful roundhouse kicks would give him problems.

As of right now I dont see anyone that would be a major threat to his belt.

However I would be curious to see him and Brandon Vera fight.

 

[devante]

I think a K-1 level striker would have a good chance at beating him standing , but the problem is there are no strikers of that caliber in the UFC.

I think a southpaw of K-1 level striking like Cropcop (if only he was a Light heavyweight).
or a fast Muay Thai fighter with good push kicks to stop Lyoto's straight punch flurries , and fast powerful roundhouse kicks would give him problems.

As of right now I dont see anyone that would be a major threat to his belt.

However I would be curious to see him and Brandon Vera fight.

i was thinking the same thing vera has very high level kb/mt, great athleticism, solid power (esp in his kicks), alot of variety in his kicks and has a solid wrestling base he frequently uses.

if he can put two or three wins together and machida keeps that belt, he will get a shot and i think he can do something w/lyoto

 

[FyouKantCme]

GSP, if he were 20 pounds heavier could give him problems. obviously anderson silva but that's not going to happen. pat barry could be a treat if he cuts to light heavyweight, which he probably will, and develops a decent ground game and takedown defense. forrest would be an interesting match up just because of his size, but he's not skilled enough to actually beat him. like to see how he does against rampage and shogun. most likely his next two opponents.

 

[Boxer]

Two words ... Remy Bonjasky.

Four words .... Not in the UFC.

unfortunatley, then you also have to take in the ground aspect.

 

[Rink]

Anderson Silva vs Machida could be a very interesting fight. Another southpaw with good timing, power, chin, and speed. Not to mention good wrestling and BJJ. I think he's the only one in the UFC to give him a fight and Silva has had experience at 205. That would be a fight I would actually give a rats ass about in MMA.

 

[Rink]

GSP, if he were 20 pounds heavier could give him problems. obviously anderson silva but that's not going to happen. pat barry could be a treat if he cuts to light heavyweight, which he probably will, and develops a decent ground game and takedown defense. forrest would be an interesting match up just because of his size, but he's not skilled enough to actually beat him. like to see how he does against rampage and shogun. most likely his next two opponents.

Shogun would be a good fight, but I think Shogun's style plays right into Machida's style. It is possible his speed and aggression can overwhelm Machida though. Rampage is on his way down and I don't see Forrest making a dent in Machida.

 

[Snubnoze707]

Someone who can actually throw kicks. Great punches and takedowns don't mean shit if you can't get within range.

 

[devante]

Someone who can actually throw kicks. Great punches and takedowns don't mean shit if you can't get within range.

esp when you face a guy who throws great kicks, punches and has takedowns and a solid ground game, WHO CAN GET WITHIN YOUR RANGE.

the fact is machida is tech better than everyone in his division in two of the three dimensions of mma; an w/his sumo b/g and exp w/judo/wrestling, he is at least competently eff in the 3rd aspect (takedowns/etc) both off and def.

i can't name one guy who is not just competent but very good to high level in standup, wrestling, groundwork; with the exception of vera, an maybe rua. Most have a strength in one area, which is based on avg tech and alot of phys ability; an they are either inactive in other areas or just terrible in them.

machida is tough cus he is not trying to cover or protect a weakness, nor is he fearful of an approach cus he covers ALL the bases; not by learning on the fly, but by dev a solid base before fighting.

 

[devante]

he was only on his back once, an got right back on top; also the difference w/him and other strikers, is they seek to def the takedown and fight from the outside. Machida fights from the outside, comes in and sweeps you off the punch, or steps around and sweeps u while going in for the clinch, or sweeps/trips you from the clinch. An if you clinch/shoot, he stuffs it and resets or counters, locks you up and takes you down.

machida looks to go to the ground, unlike alot of strikes; who often seek to stay as far away as possible, its hard to deal w/a fighter who is willing to test you in your area of strength (i.e. takedowns/clinches/throws/trips/sweeps). i think it throws guys off because he is picking you apart from the outside, then u come in and clinch and instead of maintaining the space, he locks up w/u and sweeps or catches you coming in and sweeps.

so now u have to def his striking; but also HIS takedown attempts, which is a dynamic most of the "striker" don't have in their game. Putting him on his back seems good, but you can't just focus on that cus a)his range/angles b)his strikes c)his takedown; chuck had a legit wrestling b/g as does evans and they both eschewed it for striking. Machida is a legit striker and he is constantly looking for the takedown, not just defending it so he can strike. That makes him even more unpredictable, because he is hard to takedown and hard to def takedowns against; an his gnp is vicious.

silva
nakamura
soko
ortiz
penn
all guys he took down, all have legit judo/wrestling/submission wrestling/bjj exp and ALL of them were put on their ass multiple times

and the majority could not stifle or counter his gnp/top game once he got on them as ortiz got beat senseless, evans was handled on the ground, soko was submitted, silva koed

also this, evidence of another reason he is hard to prep for because he is so dominant standing people want to say just take him down, but its not that easy for this reason; which is also why he is better than the wrestlers who just want to get you down and gnp you, sub guys who just wanna get you down and tap you and the strikers who want to keep it up and ko you.

 

[nefti]

someone that knows how to throw these three things: good jab, real low kick, and work the body.

 

[Too Defensive**]

The Facinating thing about Machida is he never gets touched! He doesn't get into wars. His face is completely intact after every fight! No scratch, black eye, nothing!
This is a master striker ladies and gentleman. One who truley understands spacing. No one in the UFC is on his level in striking. Except for Anderson.

 

[Snubnoze707]

esp when you face a guy who throws great kicks, punches and has takedowns and a solid ground game, WHO CAN GET WITHIN YOUR RANGE.

the fact is machida is tech better than everyone in his division in two of the three dimensions of mma; an w/his sumo b/g and exp w/judo/wrestling, he is at least competently eff in the 3rd aspect (takedowns/etc) both off and def.

i can't name one guy who is not just competent but very good to high level in standup, wrestling, groundwork; with the exception of vera, an maybe rua. Most have a strength in one area, which is based on avg tech and alot of phys ability; an they are either inactive in other areas or just terrible in them.

machida is tough cus he is not trying to cover or protect a weakness, nor is he fearful of an approach cus he covers ALL the bases; not by learning on the fly, but by dev a solid base before fighting.

Ya I agree with the post. I think Vera and Rua are the only ones stylistically that stand a chance. Whether they can do it or not remains to be seen, but stylistically they should be able to mount some offense. I'd like to see Vera get some quality wins under his belt ad some more experience before they throw him at Machida. Give Shogun a few and see what he can do.

I think we will see the belt in Machida's hands for a while before he is figured out and put against someone with the right style to handle him. Its been a while since their has been a dominant champ in 205 so we're due for it anyway...