Is the cage really better than a ring?

[Demosthenes]

The shape of the ring lends itself to better striking. If they can make a ring with ropes that are meshed together to prevent being tangled and sturdy/high enough to prevent anyone from falling out, I could see it working well.

 

[Sirwastealot]

What's better about it? How many guys do we need to see get sent between the ropes? How many awkward resets to mid-ring do we need to see? The debate was over long ago and all I see when this gets brought up is people talking revisionist nostalgia about events in the past.

But talking about cage hugging is not revisionist nostalgia, it's a legitimate negative of the octagon.

So are the resets, i can see why a lot of people would be against that. But it's worth debating. Seems more people are picking the cage so far.

 

[Cygnus-X]

I'd much rather them pause for 10 seconds than have someone do the splits on the cage for 3 minutes.

Now you're just being stupid.

The so-called "wall'n'stall" doesn't really happen that much just like "lay'n'pray" doesn't happen that much. None of it is really a problem.

Yes, some fights are stinkers. To think that you can somehow change the game so there won't be boring matches ever is just misguided and moronic. All sports have stinkers. That's the nature of sports.

 

[Edgar Allan Hoe]

Now you're just being stupid.

The so-called "wall'n'stall" doesn't really happen that much just like "lay'n'pray" doesn't happen that much. None of it is really a problem.

Yes, some fights are stinkers. To think that you can somehow change the game so there won't be boring matches ever is just misguided and moronic. All sports have stinkers. That's the nature of sports.

Wall n Stall happens all the time. Are you serious?

 

[Ring>>Cage]

screen name says it all

 

[Cygnus-X]

Wall n Stall happens all the time. Are you serious?

It happens all the time if you're dumb enough to never see punches, knees, elbows etc. get landed.

 

[Talent]

someone should make a compilation of MMA ring fails to end threads like this

?

Someone should make a list of fights of pure wall and stall.

 

[chickenlip]

The ring is no good. A cage brings functionality and I guess a gimmick to the sport

 

[Sirwastealot]

Now you're just being stupid.

The so-called "wall'n'stall" doesn't really happen that much just like "lay'n'pray" doesn't happen that much. None of it is really a problem.

Yes, some fights are stinkers. To think that you can somehow change the game so there won't be boring matches ever is just misguided and moronic. All sports have stinkers. That's the nature of sports.

If a change of rules, settings or whatever else can reduce the frequency of these stinkers wouldn't that be a desirable change? Should they also not have applied the "stand up" rule in case of inactivity, because hey stinkers happen!

I can understand the other point, that resets can break the momentum of fights and that's a negative. But this argument of all sports have stinkers seems like a cop out.

 

[Jebi Se]

Ring all the way. It allows opponents to use angles to corner someone and you can't really hold someone against the ropes.

Plus it would help the sport get away from that "bloodsport" image.

 

[Jocke]

Yes, pushing up against the ropes happened all the time in PRIDE, it would either be ropes or just in the corner. Atleast with the cage the fighters dont fall out of the ring. I like the ring aesthetically, but the cage is so much better for MMA.
The whole lay and pray shit complaint need to stop.
These guys are specializing in this, but no one ever gives anyone shit for not being able to get out of it. JDS knew damn well this was going to happen, hell it happened last time for christ sake, and he still couldnt do shit about, this speaks volume of Cains ability and JDS inability.

At the end of the day, if a guy wants to do the lay and pray thing and you dont like it, then just dont watch these people.

 

[Cygnus-X]

If a change of rules, settings or whatever else can reduce the frequency of these stinkers wouldn't that be a desirable change? Should they also not have applied the "stand up" rule in case of inactivity, because hey stinkers happen!

The stand up rule arguably creates more inactivity then it solves. Guy on bottom just ties up an overhook, stares at the ref with sad bambi eyes until it gets stood up. You can make the case that if the guy on bottom had to solve problems with his own skill then he would have to act to sweep/submit/stand up and therefore opening up more possibilities for the guy on top to pass and strike.

I'm very skeptic about any changes or limitations made on the sport where the ref bails out the fighters due to the fighter's lack of skill. Guys like Gustafsson, Liddell and Bisping have shown that it's a true skill to stifle guys who want to wrestle you, this should not be given to fighters of lesser skill by just being passive and asking the ref to save them.

 

[Squarechoke]

The cage is far better than the ring for MMA.

You don't have to constantly reset the fight in a cage. The ring favors strikers (the shape, and how you can escape submissions by just going out between the ropes) while the cage is more neutral (as the wall is used both offensively and defensively in grappling). The ring poses more dangers when falling out of the ropes and getting tangled. If wrestlers adapted to the ring they'd just push people into the corners, making it even harder to reverse, so that wouldn't change that aspect much. The list goes on but this is making me feel like Captain Obvious.

The ring is very obviously created for striking sports. The cage was created for MMA.

 

[buda2]

There's a difference between wall'n'stall and grinding a guy down against the cage.

Cain ground JDS down. It's like counterpunching, G'nP, and even a good guard game. It's all good when the guy finishes his opponent. machida being the best example. I find it's a work of art when a fighter finishes his opponent with better technique but it hurts to watch when it goes nowhere.

At least with Cain you see that he's always working always bringing pressure. Cain doesn't just swaet on a guy he roughs him up. Even if that isn't your favorite style to watch you can't pretend there's no action. It's just not your favorite style.

 

[El Magnifico]

I think each has its own pros and cons.

I do think the ring favors fighters such as Mirco, kick boxers and the like. With regards to the UFC and the cage, the octagon style cage is TM by them so that will never change.

 

[thatone**]

the cage is light years ahead of a ring for mma. a ring IMO make absolutle no sense. padded walls would even be better for fighting but doesnt allow the audience to see anything.

 

[Jebi Se]

Or do the best of both worlds.... a square cage.

 

[Insaniteus]

The cage is vastly superior, even most of the fighters who have fought in both agree. The ring causes huge problems for grapplers while favoring strikers. It let fighters in trouble grab the ropes to escape danger like it was the freakin' WWE.

And switching to a ring wouldn't stop wall n stall, since it's obviously not very difficult to trap an opponent in the corner. Even back in Pride there were numerous cases of one guy pushing his opponent into the corner and just holding him there, taking small body shots, and waiting for an opening before moving.

PS: In no way shape or form was Cain using Wall n Stall, considering he landed over 300 strikes, brutalized JDS's face, and won by tko. Even Cormier was only using wall grinding as a transitional tactic between unleashing 3 and 4 hit combos on Roy's head.

PPS: The worst Wall n Stall I ever saw was Nik Lentz vs Andre Winner, and still to this day I root for Lentz to be Rashad-faced in every single fight because of it.

 

[Sirwastealot]

These guys are specializing in this, but no one ever gives anyone shit for not being able to get out of it. JDS knew damn well this was going to happen, hell it happened last time for christ sake, and he still couldnt do shit about, this speaks volume of Cains ability and JDS inability.

At the end of the day, if a guy wants to do the lay and pray thing and you dont like it, then just dont watch these people.

I still won't give JDS shit for it. Although he could have been more busy, he seemed to set himself up by standing close to the cage. But really if a strong HW, and elite wrestler like Cain has you pinned against the cage, how are you supposed to get out?

At least with lay'n'pray guys have the chance to sweep, sub, push their way up. It's very hard to escape that position, especially against a strong HW leaning into you. I found myself thinking that during the fight. What could any HW have done in Junior's position?

 

[Cygnus-X]

I still won't give JDS shit for it. Although he could have been more busy, he seemed to set himself up by standing close to the cage. But really if a strong HW, and elite wrestler like Cain has you pinned against the cage, how are you supposed to get out?

If you can't get out, you can't get out. That is fighting. The rules shouldn't cater to help people with their weaknesses, that's their own job.

At least with lay'n'pray guys have the chance to sweep, sub, push their way up. It's very hard to escape that position, especially against a strong HW leaning into you. I found myself thinking that during the fight. What could any HW have done in Junior's position?

There's a lot of things you CAN do, you just need to be really great at it. Better than Cain.