International Is South Africa coming undone?

[Arkain2K]

Community members protect the entrance of the Sky City Mall in Vereeniging from possible looting.

Members of the Katlehong People's Taxi Association chase a crowd of looters outside the Chris Hanni Mall in Vosloorus.

Taxi operators use their vehicles to block the entrance to Ceramic Tile Market (CTM) and Birch Acres Mall in Tembisa, north of Johannesburg

People hold brooms as others sort rubble while volunteering to clean the Diepkloof Square following looting and vandalism in Soweto.

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/galle...-organise-to-confront-looters-defend-property

 

[Lord Coke]

Is South Africa

Is Normal

Howzit, SA has been raped by wh*te supremacists for centuries, and now a couple of poor desperate starving hungry people are taking a few pieces of bread from SPAR and it's the end of the world. Dr Malema will calm things down and the wh*te supremacists and their Indian race soldiers will go back to their cozy suburbs while the Black folx continue to suffer under the boot of colonialism.

Are the farm murders also just people taking a few pieces of bread?

 

[Bald1]

South Africans organise to confront looters, defend property
Many citizens have banded together to scare off looters as South Africa reels under its worst unrest in decades.

Triggered by the jailing of former President Jacob Zuma last week, after he failed to appear at a corruption inquiry, protests in South Africa have widened into an orgy of looting and an outpouring of anger over the hardship and inequality that persist in South Africa for 27 years after the end of apartheid.

More than 70 people have been killed in the unrest, the worst in South Africa for years, and hundreds of businesses wrecked. Food and fuel supplies are running short.

Shopping malls and warehouses have been ransacked or set ablaze in several cities, mostly in Zuma’s home in the KwaZulu-Natal province, especially the Indian Ocean port city of Durban, and the financial and economic centre Johannesburg and surrounding Gauteng province.

But in signs of a public backlash, residents in some areas on Wednesday turned suspected looters over to the police, blocked entrances to malls and in some cases armed themselves as vigilantes to form roadblocks or scare them away.

In Vosloorus, southern Johannesburg, minibus taxi operators, many of whom have guns, fired bullets into the air to scare off looters.

“We can’t just allow people from nowhere to come and loot here,” said Paul Magolego, Vosloorus taxi association spokesman, adding that taxi drivers had had no business since Monday because of the unrest.

Underscoring the inherent dangers of such vigilantism, a 14-year-old boy was killed by a stray bullet in Vosloorus. Magolego said the taxi owners arrived on the scene after he was dead.

Citizens armed with guns, many from South Africa’s white minority, blocked off streets to prevent further plundering, in Durban.

Others were forming online groups to help clean up and rebuild devastated neighbourhoods.

Security forces say they have arrested more than 1,200 people, while President Cyril Ramaphosa met political party leaders on Wednesday to discuss the unrest.

The violence appeared to have abated in some areas, but in others, there was renewed burning and looting.

The government said 208 incidents of looting and vandalism were recorded on Wednesday, as the number of soldiers deployed to support police doubled to 5,000.

But Defence Minister Nosiviwe Mapisa-Nqakula later told parliament she had “submitted a request for deployment of plus-minus 25,000” soldiers. Troop deployments are authorised by the president.

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/galle...-organise-to-confront-looters-defend-property

This is so BLM-esque:

"Underscoring the inherent dangers of such vigilantism, a 14-year-old boy was killed by a stray bullet in Vosloorus. Magolego said the taxi owners arrived on the scene after he was dead."

Concentrate on this 14 year old while barely mentioning the 70 other dead people. It's as if from a script that's designed to discourage people protecting their property in absence of those paid to do so.

 

[esotamoc]

Hey @PrinceOfPain , what do you think of Serpentza's take on the situation?
He says some interesting things about deep racial hatred and compares with how non racist the US is . Says China is more overtly rascist than SA.

 

[Yehudim]

I don't think so. Boer nationalism isn't quite what it was. There are militias,etc, who might try something of that scale. But I don't think it would gain popular enough support even within the Afrikaans community to gain much traction.

A Western Cape secession is a lot more likely a response to this I think.

What makes the Western Cape so distinct that secession is a possibility?

 

[1pedestrian]

News ReportsWorld
Updated: 13 July, 2021
Indians face racist abuse online, threatened with rape and massacre as violence breaks out in South Africa

Indians are facing racist abuse and social media platforms are being used to incite violence against Indians living in South Africa.


13 July, 2021
OpIndia Staff

Image Credit: Rogan Ward/Reuters
1978
Troubling news has been coming from South Africa where violence has erupted following the arrest of former President Jacob Zuma on July 7. While looters and rioters are rampaging through the country, some of Indian origin and others who are White have come together to defend their properties through retaliation.

Consequently, Indians are facing racist abuse on social media platforms and the platforms are being used to further incite violence against Indians living in South Africa.

Source: Twitter

Source: Twitter

Source: Twitter
Indians are being accused of racism in order to justify racist attacks against them.

Source: Twitter
Indians who are defending themselves against rioters in the USA are being accused of inciting a civil war.

Source: Twitter
Some are even justifying raping Indian women because Indians are ‘evil’.

Source: Twitter
Threats of rape and massacre are also being issued.

Source: Twitter
Violence is being incited against the White population in South Africa as well.

Source: Twitter
Indians are being blamed pretty much for everything under the Sun, while some say that ‘giving the country away’ to Indians is worse than ‘living under Whites’ because Blacks do ‘better’ under Whites. One may recall, while Africans suffered slavery during colonial rule by Whites, Indians have never committed such atrocity against Africans.

Source: Twitter

Source: Twitter
Reportedly, the South African government has decided to deploy the military at some places to curb the violence. Shopping centres, pharmacies have been looted and the supply chain and Coronavirus vaccination drives were disrupted. In all, 6 people have been killed so far and a total of 489 suspects have been arrested.

In a statement, incumbent South African President Cyril Ramaphosa said, “What we are witnessing now are opportunistic acts of criminality, with groups of people instigating chaos merely as a cover for looting and theft. We will not hesitate to arrest and prosecute those who perpetrate these actions and will ensure that they face the full might of our law.”

It's because diversity doesn't work.

 

[PrinceOfPain]

What makes the Western Cape so distinct that secession is a possibility?

It's the only DA-run province, and it's the most well-run province. A great many South Africans will tell you that the one is because of the other.
I have a bit of English vanity; so, I think it's partially because the province has a more established history of British governance - old -school liberalism.
Also, the descendants of the Khoi and San are native to the region, which adds a unique flavour to discussions on that side of the country.

They've been chomping at the bit to leave, and they're always looking to angle for a little more autonomy. For example, last year they unhooked a number of their municipalities from the country's power grid, turning production over to the private sector for a test-period. Something that ANC's long been averse to agreeing to.

The DA itself doesn't believe in Western Cape secession. But a significant portion of Capetonians do. The movement gained a little extra steam last year, when voices in Texas were calling for secession.

 

[JSN]

It's the only DA-run province, and it's the most well-run province. A great many South Africans will tell you that the one is because of the other.
I have a bit of English vanity; so, I think it's partially because the province has a more established history of British governance - old -school liberalism.
Also, the descendants of the Khoi and San are native to the region, which adds a unique flavour to discussions on that side of the country.

They've been chomping at the bit to leave, and they're always looking to angle for a little more autonomy. For example, last year they unhooked a number of their municipalities from the country's power grid, turning production over to the private sector for a test-period. Something that ANC's long been averse to agreeing to.

The DA itself doesn't believe in Western Cape secession. But a significant portion of Capetonians do. The movement gained a little extra steam last year, when voices in Texas were calling for secession.

What’s a DA? Here it means district attorney which is a prosecutor.

EDIT apparently it’s a party called the Democratic Alliance.

thanks for nothing, @PrinceOfPain

 

[Denter]

https://quillette.com/2021/07/16/why-violence-and-looting-has-exploded-across-south-africa/

A decent article about the endemic corruption of ANC rule.

 

[PrinceOfPain]

Hey @PrinceOfPain , what do you think of Serpentza's take on the situation?
He says some interesting things about deep racial hatred and compares with how non racist the US is . Says China is more overtly rascist than SA.

I'll give it a look tomorrow and reply more fully.
I'm not very familiar with him, but I usually agree with what I do hear from him

For now though, China is definitely more overtly racist than SA, and we are definitely more racist than the US - just far less sensitive about it, if that makes sense.
Segments of SA are very racist, but on the whole we are nowhere near as racist as our political agitators wish we were.

 

[original doom]

Yep, that's the way I see it too.
If/when I leave, it will be to a South Eastern Asian nation, or up to Botswana, Namibia, or Kenya.

White South Africans are well-liked and valued on most of the continent, and at this point in my life, I think I might be culturally incompatible with the West. At some point I'd probably say something that'd get me arrested <45>

why not the netherlands ?

 

[Loiosh]

I'll give it a look tomorrow and reply more fully.
I'm not very familiar with him, but I usually agree with what I do hear from him

For now though, China is definitely more overtly racist than SA, and we are definitely more racist than the US - just far less sensitive about it, if that makes sense.
Segments of SA are very racist, but on the whole we are nowhere near as racist as our political agitators wish we were.

I had a dear friend in Paarl.

I can't reach her.

How are things around there?

 

[Ballsaque]

Normally, I'd say no - in fact, a few white or Indian faces would be welcome. Solidarity, and all that.
But this is a little more out of hand than normal, and we might be past that now. Racial flames have intentionally been flamed. I think Indians specifically might have trouble in KZN.

Why such a hate for indians there? I get the whites, but never heard about the indians before

 

[Cole train]

why not the netherlands ?

He literally says he would have trouble living in a western country

 

[Ruprecht]

Why such a hate for indians there? I get the whites, but never heard about the indians before

When they talk about corruption in SA politics, they are largely referring to the Guptas.

 

[ElKarlo]

When they talk about corruption in SA politics, they are largely referring to the Guptas.

Also Africa has a lot of Indians that are the merchant class on many areas. Like the Jews Or Armenians they are looked at with contempt and jealousy

 

[Ruprecht]

Also Africa has a lot of Indians that are the merchant class on many areas. Like the Jews Or Armenians they are looked at with contempt and jealousy

I'm not that well read on it, but my understanding is that the rioters are mostly Zulu Zuma supporters, and somehow they are excusing Zuma while blaming the Guptas (and by some emotion driven extension all Indian business owners) for his corruption.
Definitely bears the hallmarks of ethnic identity politics.

 

[ElKarlo]

I'm not that well read on it, but my understanding is that the rioters are mostly Zulu Zuma supporters, and somehow they are excusing Zuma while blaming the Guptas (and by some emotion driven extension all Indian business owners) for his corruption.
Definitely bears the hallmarks of ethnic identity politics.

Seems like it. I’m not up to date on all this either. Seems they are trying to set blame and most of the bad rioting is in areas that support Zuma. So it’s seems like they are trying to place blame on others here

 

[genecop]

 

[Ruprecht]

Seems like it. I’m not up to date on all this either. Seems they are trying to set blame and most of the bad rioting is in areas that support Zuma. So it’s seems like they are trying to place blame on others here

I read that the Zulu king and Zulu nationalist party (IFP) have actually condemned both the attacks on Indians and the rioting/looting, so clearly there's limits to the scope (presumably Zuma's faction in the ANC).
In my experience identity politics, ethnic scapegoating and corruption are old stories.
Not that Malaysia and Indonesia, or Bumiputeras and Chinese have huge amounts in common with South Africa besides colonisation, but the use of populist wealth redistribution and appeals to ethnic or religious identity to win elections despite obvious corruption is nothing new in developing nations with massive inequality (just look at the story of Malaysia's BMF scandal, the Carrian Group and murder of Jalil Ibrahim).

Edit: Apparently the EFF has been openly blaming the Indian community for some time.

Spoiler