Is soreness always a sign of progress?

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by Ron Powell Jr, Oct 28, 2010.

  1. So i had an ACL injury from Muay Thai and decided to lift weights to keep myself busy.

    I got on one of those sitting benchpress cable machines because i didn't want to worry about driving my knees on bench at the moment, went for like 5 sets, from light to heavy.

    Now it's 5 days later and my chest is still really sore...i've done Muay Thai 2-a-days, sprint conditioning, heavy deads and squats on the same day and have never been sore like i am right now in my chest...

    Could it be doing me more harm than good? i noticed that the machine was designed to get your arms to stretch really far back before you execute a press.

    It's not just sore, it's pushing it's way to the painful department, could it be some muscle damage?? and i worked out other muscle groups that day too...

    I just don't think it's natural to be this sore man....imagine if our ancestors were this sore all the time lol, they wouldn't be able to cope.

    That's the first and last time i use a fucking bench press machine...
     
  2. VoodooPlata

    VoodooPlata Brown Belt

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    Dunno bout the rest of your post, but this reeks of truth no matter what.
     
  3. Wiki'd DOMS:

    Does that mean lifting slow (ie. bodybuilding) causes DOMS more than anything?

    Wow i was bodybuilding? Man, i feel like a douche now. lol.
     
  4. Poseylifts

    Poseylifts Orange Belt

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    I'm usually only sore if either a) It's been more than 2 weeks since I lifted using that muscle group or b) I perform a lift in high volume compared to what I've recently been doing.

    I wouldn't say soreness if ever a sign of progress. I would judge progress by being able to add weight to the bar in a progressive manner. So if you're adding 5 pounds to your squat each week but your legs are no longer getting sore the next day you are still making progress.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2010
  5. guilineseguy

    guilineseguy Black Belt

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    From what I have read and heard on these forums. Soreness doesn't mean anything. Maybe just take a few days off, and see how you feel. There have been times where I went, and lifted heavy, did alot of sets, and a few different exercises. And didn't get sore at all. And there was one time, I literally went in did one set of bench press, light warm up set. And a set of squats again light warm up. And the next day I could barely stand up straight or raise my arms. Two days later i was fine.
     
  6. miaou

    miaou barely keeping it together

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    If you are used to doing bench press and you hardly ever get sore even if you go heavy all the time, you can still get significant DOMS if you change the angle and/or ROM and/or degree of eccentric motion the muscles are used to working in. The DOMS in an unfamiliar movement (even if it's really close to movements your muscles are already used to) can be as heavy as if your muscle was completely out of shape and this was your first time working out. That's one of the reasons why you always go light-moderate the first time you do an exercise.

    The most likely thing that happened is that your muscles were strong enough to go heavy on that machine, but the angle/ROM of contraction was different than what they were used to. Pain may feel debilitating but it will eventually subside. If it's that painful, don't work it on anything near heavy weights. Proper diet, proper rest and light weights for high reps (without going near failure) may help it recover faster.
     
  7. guilineseguy

    guilineseguy Black Belt

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    ^^^^Listen to that guy. He knows his stuff.
     
  8. Dake

    Dake Blue Belt

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    I've always been told soreness means you aren't eating enough.

    Take it for what its worth.
     
  9. CRZA

    CRZA Purple Belt

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    As tosa said, you get doms when doing something unfamiliar, angle, intensity, etc. For example the first time I did stiff legged deadlifts, I found it hard to walk for a week.

    On the painfull doms kina feeling, I got that before when I did dips and went with too big rom, I got that stretch in my chest, and the next day it hurt like hell, like it was hard to breath. So if the machine made you go past your flexibility level, that might be the problem
     
  10. pjmeunyc12

    pjmeunyc12 Purple Belt

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    No, thats not true. Eating and rest is important but sometimes DOMS in unavoidable.
     
  11. KILL KILL

    KILL KILL Gold Belt

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    It will heal in time. could even take up to a week or 2 to completely regenerate. Just because it feels better one day does not mean you should go workout hard. I cannot stress that enough. What you can do is an active recovery workout and go very light for a session and not go to failure on any of your sets and then see how it feels the following day.
     
  12. flak

    flak Guest

    Post-workout muscle soreness usually means you did something strenuous and/or unusual, but it's sure as hell not a way to fine-gauge the quality of your workout. (Also, the absence of muscle soreness doesn't necessarily mean your workout sucked, either.)

    If this machine required you to move your arms waaaay back, then you probably stretched your chest muscles much moreso than you normally do. I'd say the chances of soreness are even greater if you had to begin each set with one rep done from a dead stop, with your arms fully pulled back.

    I used a plate-loaded incline bench machine like that once. Shitty.

    Just consider yourself lucky if you aren't having shoulder problems.

    I have seen seated bench machines with adjustable ROM depth. So don't write off this entire class of machine yet.
     
  13. Thanks for all the feedback guys, much appreciated.

    I'm gonna get a deep tissue hot oil thai massage, see if it helps.
     
  14. rckvl

    rckvl Blue Belt

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    Hi Tosa :icon_lol:
     
  15. CRZA

    CRZA Purple Belt

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    lol, theyre both users that always give out great scientific responses, so I got em confused. good catch, tho !
     
  16. miaou

    miaou barely keeping it together

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    Hmf! How come nobody mistakes Tosa for miaou? :(









    That was an awesome post by Tosa, btw. Excellent advice! :)
     
  17. cXs808

    cXs808 Brown Belt

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    I actually did before I read this post. When I'm browsing a thread and I see Tosa or miau's avatar, I always stop to read.
     
  18. miaou

    miaou barely keeping it together

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    ^ Thanks for that.


    Being on the topic of DOMS resulting from unfamiliar movements, I think the following detail might be interesting to people who don't already know it.

    It has to do with competitive cyclists who have never done proper strength training before. What happens is that, not only is their lower body already very strong and used to working against great resistance (and that includes not only strong quads, but a very strong posterior chain as well), but it's also used to working at big joint angles (which relate to the angles at the deepest point of squats, which is normally the weakest point for a dude who's never squatted before). Because of that, on their first squat session ever they can move surprisingly big weights for a person who's never squatted before.

    The problem is that cycling involves only concentric muscle contraction, and their muscles have no experience in the eccentric motion. The consequence of that is this: the cyclist can still move heavy weights, much heavier than a person squatting for the first time, but, despite his muscles being strong enough, this is the first time they contract eccentrically under load. The result of that combination can be really debilitating DOMS, even higher than a completely untrained person would get if on his first squatting session he went as heavy as possible (because they can easily go much heavier than an untrained person).

    So it's imperative for strength coaches who deal with cyclists squatting for the first time to stop them from putting anything near challenging weight on their back for the first few workouts, and work up to full intensity very gradually.
     
  19. Darwinist

    Darwinist Super Simian

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    I guess this is why fit veteran athletes crossing over into BJJ from other sports seem to get just as sore and beat up after their first few sessions as noobs that haven't really done much in the way of exercise at all?

    It
     

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