Is showing up just to collect paychecks any better than throwing fights?

How are they different?

They are entirely different. Not trying hard is disappointing, but fixing fights is corrupt. You really don't see the difference between a fighter half assing it a bit and a fighter taking money to purposefully lose a fight?

As far as Askren goes, there's no amount of effort he could have given that would have made significant difference in this context.
 
I sometimes feel like when a fighter is just showing up to collect a paycheck, that they are really are basically throwing the fight too. Because their heart is not gonna be in it, so they basically lost before its begun
 
They are entirely different. Not trying hard is disappointing, but fixing fights is corrupt. You really don't see the difference between a fighter half assing it a bit and a fighter taking money to purposefully lose a fight?

As far as Askren goes, there's no amount of effort he could have given that would have made significant difference in this context.

Lets say that im a surgeon.

I half assed my work and patient bled to death.

Or i hated that guy and let him die

Whats the difference?
 
Lets say that im a surgeon.

I half assed my work and patient bled to death.

Or i hated that guy and let him die

Whats the difference?

First of all, let's not say you are a surgeon. If you half ass your preparation, then you won't likely be operating on anyone.

Second, I already explained the difference. Giving less than 100% in preparation while trying to win =/= purposefully trying to lose.

Fixed fights should be punished firmly and immediately. Guys not giving their all will sort itself out in due time.
 
You’re ridiculously overrating Ben. Khabib, Maia, Usman, Wonderboy, Woodley, Hendricks, Shields, GSP, Fitch, Burns and Colby would’ve demolished Askren. They can all strike 10 times better and Askren has no chance taking them down or keeping them there. Lawler almost killed him. He was a champion in smaller orgs in an era with much less scattered talent. His best wins were a green Lima and a small grappler with bad wrestling in Aoki. He was getting tuned up by Sapo Santos for fuck’s sake.

As for your main point, I don’t see anything unethical. He went in there for a check, like Toney in MMA or Paulie in bare knuckle; or Nate Robinson. It was transparently a circus fight. All of them got embarrassed, but it’s them who have to live with that, not us. Their only responsibility is to themselves and their team, they’re not hurting anyone else. For the public and the promotion, as long as they didn’t actually throw the fight, they still delivered by embarrassing themselves, it’s still entertaining. The stoppage was legit. I’m 100% Ben didn’t want to get concussed by a YouTuber, but I also know he only showed up because the money was crazy; knowing he’s retired, old and injured, and accepted the risk.

Either way, I would bet Askren would also get embarrassed in boxing in his athletic prime if he could only train for 12 weeks against a guy who’s bigger and more experienced. He would maybe last a little longer, but that’s it. He is just that bad at striking, he is laughably terrible.
 
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I think ego plays a part too. Heyman mentioned how Brock would watch MMA back in the day and said to him "I can beat these guys" without any training.

I think guys like Askren or guys that take short notice fights just think it's a fight, anything can happen and they can pull it off. If not, they made a lot of money. I do think Askren went in there to win but he he half assed it because of his ego and not thinking Paul was any good.
 
Yes its better, throwing a fight would be worse, and you kind need to be a believable winner for it to be possible to do so
 
First of all, let's not say you are a surgeon. If you half ass your preparation, then you won't likely be operating on anyone.

Second, I already explained the difference. Giving less than 100% in preparation while trying to win =/= purposefully trying to lose.

Fixed fights should be punished firmly and immediately. Guys not giving their all will sort itself out in due time.

Okay so if im your mechanic and theres a problem with your brake and i just half assed it and your car crashed it all good?
 
I guess it depends. Lot of fighters now they'll never get to be champion, but still do it. It's their job and it is literally to collect they paycheck.

They won't be famous stars, nor champions, rich, and fuck all women. Nothing wrong with that.

But Askren's case was embarassing. He looked fucking awful. Even my wife talked about on the 1 second she looked at the TV. To go there knowing you're just going to get fucked is ridiculous. Like throwing the fight.
 
I have been a guy who really thought highly of Ben through his entire career. Still think Ben would wipe the floor with Mas 9 out of 10 times. I still think he wouldve beaten Colby. And give a tough fight to Usman. And wipe the floor with Khabib. And present tricky challenge to GSP.
Lol you are overrating Askren pretty badly.

what made you think any of this?
 
Okay so if im your mechanic and theres a problem with your brake and i just half assed it and your car crashed it all good?

No, you'd be a bad mechanic, and I'd stop taking my car to you. But if you intentionally sabotaged my brakes, and I crashed, then you'd go to jail for attempted murder.

This is an easy concept. Showing up to a fight with no drive just to collect a paycheck is bad, but it's a lot less bad than fixing fights.
 
No, you'd be a bad mechanic, and I'd stop taking my car to you. But if you intentionally sabotaged my brakes, and I crashed, then you'd go to jail for attempted murder.

This is an easy concept. Showing up to a fight with no drive just to collect a paycheck is bad, but it's a lot less bad than fixing fights.
Veey well said. If OP can't understand this he's being disingenuous and trolling.
 
If you actually don't try to win the fight then that is basically the same, but if you just don't try hard enough during training then that's very different.

Edit: I'm not talking about a fighter who is getting badly beaten and mentally breaks, I mean if the fighter comes out from the start not trying and looking for a way out.
 
Anyone who has followed Ben is not surprised by the "prepearation". I honestly think Askren thought he could hold his own but noone should have expected a ripped and ready boxing version of Ben Askren. His entire career he was a boring wrestler that defined the "lay and pray" style and didnt give a fuck. He won and got paid, thats all that mattered to him.

For the Paul fight i think getting paid in a big way before retirement was the most important part but i do think he thought he could win or at least make a show of it.

Enjoy the Paul circus, Ben did exactly what he was supposed to do.
 
Okay so if im your mechanic and theres a problem with your brake and i just half assed it and your car crashed it all good?

When it comes to practical life-applicable actions, half-assing goes under the same umbrella as general incompetence. Incompetence is only unethical when there are lives on the line, such as surgery or—in the very rare and specific event that your car crashes directly due to the mechanic—auto technicians.

When it comes to a sport such as MMA or boxing, the ethical implications are different. If you don't your best effort, two things can happen:

1. You lose a fight you could've won. This is the case for Silva vs Bisping, where he did a lot of magical hand waving instead of trying to finish the fight. Or any of BJ Penn's later fights, where he simply stopped caring.

2. You win but you put up a very boring performance and disappoint your fans. This is the case of Izzy in the Romero fight, or BB in the Ngannou fight.

Neither are "unethical" results. Disappointing, perhaps, but I don't see where ethics goes into it unless it involves betting and conflict of interest.
 
No, you'd be a bad mechanic, and I'd stop taking my car to you. But if you intentionally sabotaged my brakes, and I crashed, then you'd go to jail for attempted murder.

This is an easy concept. Showing up to a fight with no drive just to collect a paycheck is bad, but it's a lot less bad than fixing fights.

but if you half ass in your fights how do you expect to win against much superior opponent?

fighting much superior opponent isn't same as fixing a brake. But then again i'm no mechanic
 
Ben didn't throw that fight. He tried, he failed, he got blasted
 
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