Is Saori Yoshida the 2nd best wrestler in history?

Human Bass

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Of course Karelin will always be king.

Her record is amazing, with 3 olympic golds and 10 world titles, a 119 win streak. But some could arguee that women wrestling has a shallower talent pool and since I know very little of wrestling...
 
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Karelin is #2.
Buvaisar Saitiev is #1. :D

Saitiev had 6 world titles by the time he was 30, Yoshida 10.

The fact she started so young and managed to not get burned out is amazing.

But what I want to know is how great her technique is. I know she isn't as strong as a 80kg male wrestler. I want an p4p insight on her.
 
Women's wrestling has a very shallow talent pool. The women's Olympics has lesser competition than a men's national competition just about anywhere.
 
Saitiev had 6 world titles by the time he was 30, Yoshida 10.

The fact she started so young and managed to not get burned out is amazing.

But what I want to know is how great her technique is. I know she isn't as strong as a 80kg male wrestler. I want an p4p insight on her.

Her accomplishments are beyond amazing, but you simply can't compare men and women in wrestling at the highest level. You'll see girls beating guys at younger age groups, but once you hit a certain point of competition, it shouldn't happen. Yoshida wrestles at 55 kg, which is also a weight class in men's competition. If you put Yoshida against any male 55 kger at Worlds/Olympics, I'd be surprised if she scored, let alone won.

I have personally scrimmaged with the 72 kg world silver medalist (same size as me, bigger actually) and I could turn her at will on the ground. I have zero notable accomplishments as an athlete.

All that said, I respect women's wrestling. It's still a young sport, and there are some great technicians out there, Yoshida being one of them.
 
and actually, your one point about not burning out is probably her most impressive feat. She has lost twice in international competition, once to Marcie Van Dusen of the US in 2006 I think and this past year at World Cup to Russia. The fact she has managed to win every world/olympic/asian games match is pretty impressive regardless of the talent pool.
 
Even P4P/technically speaking I can't imagine women's wrestling being even comparable. I myself have wrestled against a junior world medalist who was one weight class larger than myself when I was a sophomore in high school without many major credentials. I was expecting to get torn up, we ended up trading takedowns.
Like someone mentioned before, women's wrestling is extremely shallow. As it becomes more popular I expect the differences to close.
 
She's the best female wrestler of all time without a doubt. I've seen her wrestle live a few times and her technique is impeccable.
 
I have seen MANY womens Olympic medalists get their asses kicked by 13 yr old boys with much better technique. Does Yoshida have the best international resume of all time? Yes. Does she have the greatest combination of physical attributes and wrestling technique of all time? Fuck no.
 
She'll 'prolly remain the most successful female wrestler of all time as the talent pool will only get deeper as time passes.
 
What about Artur Taymazov?

He is very good and would be on a short list of best olympic wrestlers ever but he certainly is 2nd best wrestler in history. With heavyweights alone, you have American Bruce Baumgartner with 13 world and olympic medals on his resume that I would put ahead of him. At the Olympics he had (2 golds, 1 silver, and one bronze) and at the world championships (3 gold, 3 silvers, and 3 bronzes). That is incredible right there.

There are so many wrestlers that have truly amazing resumes. Karelin and Saitiev have been mentioned. John Smith of the US with 6 straight world and olympic golds, etc.

Yoshida is hands down the greatest womens wrestler ever but she can't be included on this list of best wrestlers in history overall. Women's wrestling is still in it's infancy and there honestly isn't enough high level competition in the world for women yet for their records to be on par with mens.
 
IMO Yoshida & Icho deserve consideration for 'top 10 of all time' lists, women or not (I wouldn't put them top 5 or anything though). I think Icho is better/more dominant than Yoshida BTW.

people will question the 'depth of talent' in women's wrestling, granted it's not as high as mens but I think they underestimate it somewhat (as people do with women's sport in general), also, how deep really is the talent pool in superheavy greco (Karelin's category) in comparison for instance? personally I doubt it's *much* deeper than women's 55k in 2012, TBH. :icon_twis

I have seen MANY womens Olympic medalists get their asses kicked by 13 yr old boys with much better technique. Does Yoshida have the best international resume of all time? Yes. Does she have the greatest combination of physical attributes and wrestling technique of all time? Fuck no.

mmm, 'many'? how many? and any hints as to who? :wink:
 
I have seen MANY womens Olympic medalists get their asses kicked by 13 yr old boys with much better technique. Does Yoshida have the best international resume of all time? Yes. Does she have the greatest combination of physical attributes and wrestling technique of all time? Fuck no.

Really? Wow. We used to have a female Olympic medalist teaching wrestling at my academy and she used to kick my ass (at wrestling). Then again, my wrestling is non-existent.
 
I would tend to trust Holt's comments on this subject. He's been a long time resident working out at the Olympic Training Center trying to make the greco team in recent years and has gone on tours to tournaments in other countries. So he has seen a lot of the top wrestlers and trained with a lot of them as well.
 
IMO Yoshida & Icho deserve consideration for 'top 10 of all time' lists, women or not (I wouldn't put them top 5 or anything though). I think Icho is better/more dominant than Yoshida BTW.

people will question the 'depth of talent' in women's wrestling, granted it's not as high as mens but I think they underestimate it somewhat (as people do with women's sport in general), also, how deep really is the talent pool in superheavy greco (Karelin's category) in comparison for instance? personally I doubt it's *much* deeper than women's 55k in 2012, TBH. :icon_twis



mmm, 'many'? how many? and any hints as to who? :wink:

I actually think the level of women's wrestling is over rated, not over estimated. They train pretty hard, but the culture, experience, and community simply isnt there yet. I know it will be someday because you can watch female gymnastics and see incredible feats of athleticism, but what needs to be in place for that to happen is still being set up. I think they are doing an amazing job so far.

I would never get specific about how people do at practice and against who. Some people go hard in practice, some only work specific things etc. Most of the time if I was bored, I would watch their practices before I moved off complex. I will say I would much rather watch female freestyle at the Olympic level than highschool or some college.
 
I have seen MANY womens Olympic medalists get their asses kicked by 13 yr old boys with much better technique. Does Yoshida have the best international resume of all time? Yes. Does she have the greatest combination of physical attributes and wrestling technique of all time? Fuck no.

Agree with this. She and Karelin have the best resume, but in terms of their technique and the competition they have faced to achieve it I would not put either in the subjective top 3 greats.
 
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