Is rondas belt anymore legit than cyborgs?

[Malthian]

What's this based on exactly? I mean, is Bethe Correia on that list? If so that's pretty hilarious a part-time fighter who has only been training any kind of martial art for a grand total of 3 years is considered one of the top 20 female fighters in the division.

To put that in retrospect, that'd be like if I decided I wanted to be a basketball star in my late 20s and became one of the top NBA players in the league with 3 years of part-time playing and practicing the sport.

Women's MMA is pretty illegitimate. Nearly all of them are into it part-time and have very limited extensive backgrounds in a starting martial art.

The rankings are based upon win record, win record of opposition and ranking of opposition. And while nobody would argue that WBW isn't weak compared to the more developed men's divisions, there are a lot more women with combat sports backgrounds, MA backgrounds and actual ring experience than in featherweight.

Featherweight has women with even worse records and less experience than bantamweight. And Cyborg has defended her belt in a significantly worse division, fewer times, against even lesser talent.

Correia would probably be a legitimate top 5 in featherweight. Nobody actually believes that Correia is a competitive top 10 bantamweight outside of the UFC official rankings which are a load of bunk.

 

[Taric]

Yea they do that in baseball too, its called the minor leagues. I mean is that what we have come to? Are we actually arguing that the top orgs belts are not the most coveted?

Invicta isn't a farm league. Invicta is exactly like Strikeforce was when it was Zuffa owned and operated before it was disbanded.

With men's divisions, the UFC belt is clearly the most coveted. They are established divisions with established fighters who have defeated established fighters.
With the women there's maybe 100 fighters total in every women's division in all the major organizations combined (UFC/Bellator/Invicta/etc). And half of those fighters are in it part time. That isn't a professional sports league.

 

[uppercutbus]

cyborgs belt > rondas belt >>>> conors toy belt

 

[green giant]

They both fought who ever is put in front of them at their weight so no. Ronda won't meet in the middle for the cyborg fight which is the legit way to go so I lean towards cyborg.

 

[Malthian]

Invicta isn't a farm league. Invicta is exactly like Strikeforce was when it was Zuffa owned and operated before it was disbanded.

Invicta 135 and 115 is a farm league for the UFC. The Invicta fighters have it written into their contract that they can go to the UFC at any time.

Invicta 145 isn't technically a farm league, but you could argue that it's a 2nd tier or at best a competitive league given that Bellator now has a stronger roster in terms of talent.

 

[sdss]

Why is her case worse than the plethora of other cases?

Simply put, I feel that the advantage Cyborg gained from using PEDs is far more pronounced in females, (as opposed to males,) and far more pronounced in her specifically, (as opposed to Carina Damm.)

 

[I WILL CUT YOU]

Here are the current top 30 p4p women MMA fighters in the world (Courtesy Zec1234 who puts a ton of work into these things)

11 of the top 30 fight in Ronda Rousey's division - the UFC women's bantamweight division

1 of the top 30 fight in Cyborg's division - Cyborg herself

Rousey's record against the top 30 p4p in the world is 6-0

Cyborg's record against the top 30 is 0-0 - having not fought any of them.

"They (Rousey and Cyborg opponents) are all just a bunch of chicks so basically it's all the same thing, right?" is not a coherent argument.

/thread.

 

[green giant]

Simply put, I feel that the advantage Cyborg gained from using PEDs is far more pronounced in females, (as opposed to males,) and far more pronounced in her specifically, (as opposed to Carina Damm.)

Just because you feel that way doesn't make it true. Understand?

 

[Malthian]

They both fought who ever is put in front of them at their weight so no. Ronda won't meet in the middle for the cyborg fight which is the legit way to go so I lean towards cyborg.

That's just silly.

Negotiations of a fight between differing weight classes has no bearing on the actual legitimacy of the belts. GSP's belt isn't any more or less legitimate just because he decides to negotiate with Silva for a fight, regardless of the outcome of the negotiation.

The only factors that determine the legitimacy of a belt (best of a weight class) are the level of talent in the division relative to the weight class at large (do you have the best in the world in your division), and how many times have you defended that belt against that competition.

If you have the best talent in the world at that weight class, then the belt is legitimate. If the title holder has defended that belt against the bulk of the best, then the title holder's reign is legitimate.

 

[TheComputerGuy]

If cyborgs belts means the same as Ronda's then anyone in bellator or wsof title means the same. Of course the 14 year olds will whine and claim that isn't true.

 

[green giant]

Ronda's belt earns her millions of dollars while Cyborg's belt earns her $100,000.

All that means is ronda has better draw. She is prettier, has a more well known org to fight out of and some people fall for the ufc propaganda.

 

[Malthian]

Just because you feel that way doesn't make it true. Understand?

It's that way because you're talking a multiplier of base hormone levels.

The average male's testosterone ranges between 260 and 1,100 ng/DL.
The average female's testosterone ranges between 15 and 70 ng/DL.

So a man and a woman take a supplement that increases their testosterone level by 100 ng/DL. For the male it's a 10%-50% increase in the hormone. For a woman it's a 140%-600% increase in the hormone.

Given that testosterone has dramatically higher benefit going from low levels to high levels than going from high levels to slightly higher levels (diminishing returns), it is dramatically worse for women to use steroids than it is for men to use steroids if you're talking about fair competition.

In other words,

one pill/injection for a woman is >>>>>>>> one pill/injection for a man

 

[green giant]

Look at the record of the girls they put in front of Cyborg, they are a joke. Plus, the PEDs and cyborg sistematically calling out a lighter fighter to fight her overweight

I'm pretty sure ronda started all the crap talking.

 

[sdss]

Just because you feel that way doesn't make it true. Understand?

This topic invites the opinions of those who respond. Is there some particular reason you have an issue with me sharing mine specifically?

 

[green giant]

Yes, she was caught cheating once, and as I explained, I consider this to be the most egregious example of proven cheating in the history of MMA. I have defensible reasons for that, though I recognized that some might argue that Josh Barnett's repeated cheating is in fact worse.

It's all pretty easy to understand. Are you fucking stupid?

Your logic is....non logical. She is worse yet it only happened once? Plenty of fighters got caught once, some more then once yet her's is the worst? Tunnel vision ufc/ronda unjustifiable propaganda right there.

 

[green giant]

This topic invites the opinions of those who respond. Is there some particular reason you have an issue with me sharing mine specifically?

I can see you don't understand so there is no use trying with you...

 

[JKS]

They are two different belts from two different promotions, neither is more legit as I dont think either organization is clearly superior in wmma

 

[torval]

the women's 145 weight class is a joke. there are so few that i'm surprised they can even fill a roster. they certainly won't fill a full roster with girls who are any good. there just aren't many women fighters that are big enough to fight at 145, well good ones.

look at women's 115. that division is stacked. 135 has a few good fighters. 145 is just grap. julia budd LOOKS awesome but gets her ass beat by ronda and cyborg.

 

[sdss]

Your logic is....non logical. She is worse yet it only happened once? Plenty of fighters got caught once, some more then once yet her's is the worst? Tunnel vision ufc/ronda propaganda right there.

It's very logical. You have to actually be able to follow the logic tho and not dismiss it.

Plenty of male fighters have been tested positive for PEDs once, so judging solely on that criteria, they're all arguably at the same level. Some have tested twice, so they're all at the same, slightly worse, level, and one person, Josh Barnett, has tested positive three times, so he's worse still. I said that from the get go.

But again, my opinion is that PED abuse is worse in female competitors, and worse still in Cyborg's case.

 

[Guy Smith]

Not impressed with Cyborg's record other than Carano but she is fighting bigger girls though.

Marloes Coenen is a win every women would want. She only lost 3 times from Strikeforce to present. Tate once and Cyborg twice. All for titles. Coenen definitely has a place in the Gina/Cyborg/Rousey/Tate story.

Carano was a fairly fast win. Both her Coenen fights were probably her longest.